I will never understand why some people feel the need to spin a stock motor out of its effiency range when there is so little power to be found there and ends up doing more damage than anything else.

With the exception of rods and pistons along with heads that flow only marginally better, our GT engines with a Boss intake are NEARLY identical to that of a Boss engine. The Boss 302S and 302R teams spin it that high for hours on end. For a quick 10-11 seconds we are good. Those race teams must not know what they are doing spinning it that high :p

The Boss intake changes where the GT motor is efficient by moving the powerband higher. The CJ does the same but even higher than the Boss

Rods and pistons can have a big affect on Rpms espeically if the weight is different.

re-rx7, you are correct but have you seen the Boss rods and pistons? They look and are nearly identical to a GTs except for the process in which they are made. They are also nearly the same weight so I don't think that argument can be used here...but I've been wrong before as my wife tells me :)

brent, i look forward to your results. will you be going back to e85 too?

Id like to see the weights of both. With gd tuning I believe the bearing in the Coyote are up to the challenge however, detonation or crap timing would probally shorten their life alot. The CJ MAni looks awesom and Im looking forward to the results.

I will be using e85 since it is a terrible fuel...with an intake that won't work...with valvetrain that can't handle it...with a gutted car...tuned by someone who can't tune (me)...with an auto because it is sooooo much easier than a stick...with drag radials that can't hook...with advancetrac turned on and limp mode enabled...all while running out of MAF.

Some of you guys must think I don't do research and just throw parts at the car. I have friends across the whole industry from when I used to have a race shop with a Dynojet up in Detroit. I read and talk to a lot of people before I buy or implement something. 36,000 miles and over 180 passes all while being the fastest stock converter bolton car in the country...I have no secrets and am willing to help everyone...just ask.

Can I borrow some money?:head3: LOL

Id like to know where the stock Ecu in the 5.0 reaches it limits. When I had an Evo it was around 600whp or so before the Ecu just could not control the amount of CFM accurate. That being said before going Map alot of us were geting 550 on the stock maf.

Oh and it's a lease FTW!!!!!!!!

Because its a lease I have money for car parts :) Its just like renting a house

The Boss and GT have the exact same forged crank and bearings :)

Lol you're funny.

So are you :)

I classify the gt and the boss 302 as the coyote. :nutkick:

So do I and that's why I have the thoughts I do regarding what my motor can and can't do

Id like to know where the stock Ecu in the 5.0 reaches it limits. When I had an Evo it was around 600whp or so before the Ecu just could not control the amount of CFM accurate. That being said before going Map alot of us were geting 550 on the stock maf.

So far from what I have heard is that it has not been a limit of horsepower but rather of cracking the ecu code to release more rpm. I don't know the MAF limit. Kevin Dunn can speak more on that

So the tables allow for pretty much unlimited Cfm and rpm? Whats the limit of the stock maf?

No, rpm right now is capped around 7800 in a GT processor. With some secrets I have tested a special tune from a tuner that got my car to shift at 8100. The Boss processor should be able to...kdanner with his Boss engine GT can chat more on this topic...cfm not capped in ecu.

Brent, I don't doubt you do your research. You and Steve are probably the two that research stuff on end before making decisions like this. I was just saying if it were me, if just wait and do everything at once as a fail safe. That's the engineer in me. Remove all variables that may affect the outcome.

Very interesting. SO the stock Maf can in fact handle quite a bit.

No worries Derek...to each his own





Yes indeed...I don't know the limit but ask Kevin Dunn

Idk know him

Kevin Dunn is 04sleeper on here :)

Yes, Brent and I are both information whores, we just have a different way of going about things and that is not to say his or my way is the right or wrong way, I'm just saying different. That is mostly due to us both having different goals in mind for our cars. Brent has a goal in mind for his NA applications. Putting those self imposed parameters on himself an what he would like to achieve kind of forces him to go to these extremes to achieve his goal.

I as well enjoy learning and doing as much research a possible to make the most of my combo as well. I'm about to get started on the goal for my car here before long. Kevin being one of my best buds has taught me a lot and I bend his ear quite often.

I think Brent and I are going to the basic same place, just taking means to get there. The important thing is that we both learn as much as possible to obtain our goals and have a lot of fun in the process.

^^^^^What this guy said!

Call me a skeptic but I would like to see that data log.

I'm going to have to agree with Steve on this one. I spoke with Brent just yesterday at the Coit meet but like Steve said they both have different plans for their cars. I personally can't wait to see your results Brent but like Steve, I just can't imagine spinning these motors that high. I'm a die hard ford guy and work in the shop at a ford dealership and have yet to see a 5.0 fail for any other reason other than cyl. 8 burn up due to improper tuning. I'm wanting to do full bolt-ons to my car. Longtubes,o/r/x cat delete, axlebacks,cai/tune,throttle body and I'm wanting and praying to be around the 420-425 range little less than those with the boss manifolds but retain my tq that the boss' lose. And than plan to go with a turbo set up. I'm just in the debate with the help of Tim from TS as to what size headers I should be running right now because the turbo set up will prob be 1 1/2 -2 years down the road.

I have been shifting these cars at 7,600+ for several years without a single issue. IMO that speaks volumes as to reliability. Nothing is ever 100% but I am willing to take my chances.

Regarding headers, Pypes is where you want to be. ;)

I agree with you. Like I said havn't seen these motors fail but that doesn't mean it wont lol. IMO they can handle it. They can take one hell of a beating no doubt, but for those who really know me would be the first to tell you I've got some of the worst luck out there, so I personally won't push it beyond 7k which is my shift point. As far as Pypes, why pypes if you dont mind me asking, just wanting your insight and any info i can get from you, thanks.

Yea, It depends on where the car stops making power. If the Dyno shows the power to start downward at 7, 7.2....8k or wherever; the car isn't going to magically make more by spinning past that point....it's done. Though it will be different for each car per the mods etc.

I seriously wish I had them but the tuner made me delete everything and return to stock at the time...the sct tune file and all datalogs had to be deleted and he did so via gotomeeting. Even though I have never met you please trust me this truly did happen as it scared me to feel what I thought was valve float knowing my motor could have gone at any moment.

JPC Racing 1 3/4" longtubes here :)

I'm just not sure what size headers I should run. Again will be N/A for awhile so I dont mind "wasting" the money for now for the right size headers and than sell them and go bigger. But would I make more power with the larger diam. while being n/a or would it just be overkill.

If N/A 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 will be fine. Personally 1 7/8 is great for blown applications and 1 3/4 for 302 cubic in n/a

Well that's exactly the answer I was looking for. So because I plan to go turbo in a year or so but will be n/a for now the 1 7/8 won't be over kill or cost me any power loss? as the 1 3/4 would be great for N/A regardless.

Both headers on a N/A setup will make similar peak HP. Difference is; the smaller header diameter will make torque, and more of it, sooner and more than likely more peak torque.

Headers are efficient until they become a restriction. In the case of a N/A, 302ci motor a 1-7/8 header is overkill and can therefore benefit with the increase in torque you find in a smaller design. A 370ci motor (LS3 etc) or a boosted 302.... 1-7/8 all day.


This^

as the smaller diameter will make more tq, how much more are we talking about? I'm just shooting for 420-425ish hp and as close to possible tq to that horsepower. In a perfect world i'd like 420-425hp and 395-405tq

Thanks guys for all the answers and time. sorry if i'm confusing/bugging the hell out of u or just thinking way too much about the topic, just wanted opinions from people with more experiences on the topic and who've seen the setups.