Need tips on motor swap?!
 

Wanting to swap a motor eventually on the 82. Would like to keep in the Ford Family. Im wanting to make around 450-500hp to the crank and stay around 5k. I need the help of some wise fox body gurus on this one. Thanks.

Shop wisely and do a Terminator swap. It would be ridiculous fun in that car. I recently saw that Teal 93 Cobra with the swap done and a VMP blower making over 680 at the tires. Insane!



<---in before Strokd's usual mod motor hate and "windsor blah blah blah".

H/c/I and a supercharger on a 302 and you have what you want. No need to swap to a terminator which would be more than 5k. I make that power and my combo is far from turned up. Shop the used market and you can get parts for cheap.

Incorrect. You can get drivetrains cheaper than 5k now. Gotta remember, the cars are over 10 years old now. lol.

I've had both and the Terminator set up is WAY more fun to drive on the street with the instant torque. It will also make more power.

Your typical h/c/i + blower setup on a stock block will make around 500rwhp/low-mid 400tq. Which is still fun, but not as much fun as the Terminator set up. In order to make more power with the Fox set up will require a better block and internals which makes the cost arguement void since it will run about the same if not a lil more.

The stock shortblock in a Terminator set up will easily handle 600rw and more. Putting that set up in a Fox is silly fun because of the amazing power to weight ratio. All that torque in a fox makes them monsters on the street!

And do not forget that intoxicating PD blower whine. Ohhhh, sooo sexy. I miss it so much!

You can't be serious on cost. So your telling me he is going to get a k member, headers, fuel system, motor, computer, wiring harness, tune and tranny for under 5k. You can't do that swap in a fox without the above, so lets see how you make that math work.

Re-read what I said. Drivetrains. Yes, you can get motors/trans for 5k or less now. Any "swap" is going to have additional costs.


It's just my opinion, I think the Terminator swap is badass. It's worth the cost and when it's done right the Modfox's are amazing cars. There are several of them on SVTP putting down over 650rw to the tires, running well into the 9's all the while still getting great mileage and FAR beyond street manners any Windsor could ever hope for with it's superior ease of tuning.

That 93 Cobra with the swap that Kevin just tuned was a perfect example of what a well done swap car can be. Almost 700rw with over 580tq on E85. Drives like stock until your foot is in it then it's a monster.

I love the Windsors too. Strokd's 408 YSi combo was a fast car for it's day and I had a ton of fun in that car too. But it's street manners were more race car like and I personally prefer the modern tech and drivability to almost a race car on the street.

It's the same with his Dad's vert. 302 stroker with a YSi that makes around the same power as the swapped 93 Cobra car. But it's got a block, FAST, fuel system, YSi blower etc and it's unreliable as fuck. Just as expensive if not more than the 93.



Swapping to a Coyote motor could be an option too. Basic bolt ons would yield great power, factory reliability in a N/A form. Later down the road could be boosted too when funds allow.

I just don't see the point of sticking a weezy under powered 302 that will struggle to make decent power and have crap drivability. With all the great modern drivetrain options why not go with something that will drive better, get better mileage, make power and have a bunch of tuning options for?

If you're planning on pushing at or around 500hp with the 8.2 deck then you definitely need to stay away from a stock block. You could go with something 351 based (393, 408..etc) and easily hit your goals, and still have some room for growth.

I will definetely agree with this if staying with a pushrod motor is in the plan.

I'd like to stay NA with the possibility of boost later on. I know there are always gonna be extra costs, I'm just trying to budget for the motor itself right now, doing a 302 swap is more practical. But I know in the long run, a coyote or termi swap would be incredible.

I think since this is my first ever ground up build, I'll stick to a 302 swap. What are my options as for as a block are concerened, should i go short block or long block?

A4 or a Sportsman block etc. Stay away from factory production type blocks. There is no truth to that factory "mexican" block nonsense about them being stronger. It will still split down the center like a regular block.

There are many engine builders out there still for Foxes. Just be sure to use a good block, forged internals etc. Keep in mind later that you are thinking about boosting it, so you will need to choose heads and a cam that will work with that later so you don't have to buy them twice.

X2 a good dart block with forged internals. Check out www.fordstrokers.com, they do long blocks and will build it for what you want along with the cam. There are a few guys on dfwmustangs running motors from that builder.

As mentioned, the factory block is the weak link and it's hit or miss on when, or even if it will break. I know cars making 400 hp that split the block in a month, and I know several cars making 550-600 that have been running for years.

Best bet is to start with good stuff. And if you've never put an engine together, might as well start with a crate motor. Look at FRPP, they have all sorts of power levels available. Check out Craft as well. You're going to be over you $5k limit pretty quickly, no matter which way you go, so might as well leave the assembly to the pros.

I was rolling my eyes reading that shit too...

OG, do a budget 408 setup. U can get a nice race motor from yellow bullet like mine for 3-4 grand, throw some heads on it and a nice carb/intake and you will be set. I sold my old 408 for 2k btw, a rebuild woulda been another 1500 and you could have thrown a 300 shot on it for fun if you needed it. The kid I sold it to made 497 rw through an auto with it... on motor, he hasnt sprayed it yet as its running deep 10s as it sits and he's happy with it.

PM me if you want, we can get into the logistics in more depth. Be happy to help you keep it from being a mod motor swap.

For the price I'd go with a 351w based motor and a D block (very cheap). Now do you want something very streetable or a 500+hp N/A big cam weekend toy. I'm partial to the sound of a big cam but for driveability you could easily go with a more mild build and a supercharger.

Just found this...
-347 Long Block
Forged 4140 crank
Forged Eagle H-beam rods
Forged JE flat top pistons
New bearings
Cometic head gaskets
AFR 185 heads (ported)
New oil pump
SFI balancer
Stock block (comes with oil pan, timing cover, water pump, and EFI Spyder intake with fuel rails)
-Complete $2800

Where I might be interested as well.

Where I might be interested as well.

Never mind just read more and will not work for me.

Clifton on DFWM, add is about a month and a half old but he might have it still. I was considering it too but I want a converter for the '13 and need to tone down the spending.

http://dfwmustangs.net/class/showpro...-sale-21&cat=9

something streetable, but yeah i love big cams too. I wanna be able to cruise around town.

Here's a long block one of my buddies has for sale right now.

74 block
SRP pistons, hellfire rings
I beam rods
Forged crank
Main girdle
Canton oil pan
Professional products dampner
Procomp electric water pump
AFR 205 heads
Custom solid roller cam.
Comp solid roller lifters
Chromoly pushrods
Comp pro gold 1.6 rockers

$4500 obo

There are only three passes on everything since being freshened.

I traded a pretty clean 351w hatchback with a big cam and a C4 for a camper (I'm a dumbass) a few months back and it did great around town. The highway at over 3000 RPM's wasn't so much fun.

im pretty clueless to what all that stuff is.

by the looks of it, its not a bad setup. The main question I would have on that is cam specs and what it the compression of the motor. I will assume since he is saying its a 351 windsor based block manufactured in 74. Its not a dart or R block, but the 351 blocks were better than the 302 blocks. Strokd needs to chime in on this, Ive never ran a stock 351 block. Every 351 block I ever had was an R block.

Also I would want to know what the bore is and if it a stock stroke on the crank.

now thats english i understand.

That motor is a stock 1974 block, I'm sure someone else will confirm the numbers, but they are typically good to about 800-850 HP.
I can't help with questions about the cam specs or compression right this second.

74 is a decent year, with stock 2 bolt mains its safe to about 600-650bhp... Or 500ish rw. I beam rods are cheap, SRP pistons are off the shelf non custom replacements made by JE (decent). I think the price is fair because of the heads... What compression and cubic inch is it?

STOP HIJACKING MY THREAD.

lets stay on topic. how hard would it to get 400 wheel horsepower out of a 302.? lets say i found an 91 in the graveyard somewhere. what would the plan be? is that something i can keep around 5k for just the motor.

Sorry, Dale. Cleaned up the thread for ya.

Your typical heads/cam/intake/carb 302's will make 280-310rw. For 400rw NA you will need to build a 351 based stroker with good heads, cam/intake/carb.

347 with heads, cam, intake, exhaust will be close. You will not make it with a 302 without a power adder. Yes it can be done for 5k if you do your own work and buy a few things used.

Not happening. Sorry, just being honest.

The budget you are setting is MORE than enough to get to your goal, but it's a waste of time trying to do it with a 302 based block. I run across 393's, 408's and other 351 based strokers all the time that are complete and ready to drop in for under $5k.

That is a 408Ci, not sure on compression.

for a 408 with a good forged crank, the price is more than reasonable. I would figure that motor with 205s and a good carb intake should make 430-450 at the wheels depending on compression?

Edit, just re read the motor setup, with a solid roller it could make near 500 rw... that'd be a fun street engine.

You want real info go to www.corral.net and do a search in the Windsor motor forum. Do some reading and you will find your answer.

Agreed. No 302 based motor is going to get there. It will require a 351 based motor of some sort.

yes and no. a 302, no, a 302 stroked to something substantial, yes. my dad's 351 stroker made 487 bhp which would be around 410rw, and it's only 8.8-1 and has a baby cam and small heads...:favorites13:

I think a 347 with 11-1 compression and some good heads would make over 400 rw, but it wouldnt be 5k unless he found all the parts used.

Edit, I think Toby made 420 rw with a 347 as well... not sure on specifics.

ok cool, these are the answers i been looking for.
I just got the new Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords and they did a whole bunch of engine combos on the 302/stroker/boosted applications.

The final N/A motor was a 363 stroker (302 based block), dart pro heads, holley 950 carb, custom cam, and put down to the crank 564/ 487.

in comparison to a modified carb 347 stroker which put down 482/ 424 to the crank.

So it looks like I'll be going stroker.

There is no way you will get 500 n/a hp between the rails on a $5k budget.

To get that 363" size you have to run a 4.125" bore which automatically means a $2000 aftermarket block. That doesn't include the machine work to clearance it for that big stroker crank and buying all the rods, pistons, rings, bearings, cam, timing set, etc etc etc. I'm not sure you could get that short block together for your $5k budget - and then all you'd have to bolt on it would be those sweet smogger '82 heads.

Concentrate your $$ where it counts. Your best bet is to buy one of those well built long- or shortblocks that other people have posted up. Let someone else take a hit on all that pricey stuff. Remember that you're going to have to spend a fortune in headers/exhaust, fuel system/carb, ignition, converter or clutch, transmission, rear end, suspension, etc to support ANY "500hp" engine combination.

Building a car ain't cheap, so when someone says they have a cheap and fast Fox body, they are talking about an '87-93 car with a nitrous kit that is living on borrowed time.

Exactly. Very well said.


Cheap, fast or reliable. Pick two because it's all you get.

If you want confirmation of what I stated above, go to dfwmustangs.net and look for threads started by 91CoupeMike. lol

Spoken like a pro! I thought I was going to build my yellow car within three months and support 500hp without issues. I quickly found out that it was going to take longer than that to do it right, and the cost would be much higher than expected.

OP, have you put much thought into what tranny you plan on using to support this 500hp goal? Your typical T5 and AOD aren't going to be up for the task for very long.


lmao