Trying to decide on future motor build
 

Alright this isn't anything I'm doing right now but once I make my decision I will start piecing it together. I plan on staying supercharged since my head unit will go as far as I ever plan on taking it. So here is what I'm trying to decide on.

Do I want to stay 302 based since all my accessories will work with it. Go with a 331 or 363 port my heads, intake and raise the boost a little.

Or

Go 351 based with either a 408 or a 427. In this case I would need different heads, intake, headers but I would make more power on less boost and more torque. I can always sell my old setup to make up for the cost of the new heads and intake.

Opinions are welcome. I'm just undecided and keep going back and forth on this. I want to start buying parts here in the next couple months. It will not be a fast build since I'm in no big hurry.

Boost technology has come to a point where the big inch Windsors aren't really needed, unless you're looking for the baddest of the bad. My favorite combo has always been the 331 (more favorable rod angle), and built right, with a little boost, would be all I would ever need in a lightweight Fox.

And on that note, I need a Fox I can modify, damn it! I love my '82, but it's entirely too original to start cutting up.

I would go the 351 route since the factory block is stronger. Assuming you are not going to buy a dart block. But if you are then hands down go with a 347 ci 3.25 stroke 4.125 bore.

Dart blocked 363 with a Brooks kit. If you're going to do it, go big.

I wouldn't build either without a Dart block, I'm not dropping the coin on a forged internals without a strong block. Don't want to have to do it again later if I turn it up.

I have been thinking about that as well. But I already have a good blower. Might build it and run the supercharger for a while then drop the coin on a nice single setup.

I wish I just know what I want. This is something I am going to start piecing together over a year or two honestly. I just want to figure out exactly what I'm doing and then I will start buying parts. The biggest expense is going to be the block. Some things I will find used like a bigger intake and bigger heads. Once I do the build I will sell all my old stuff to recover some of the money.

Is he using a factory 302 block, R block, Dart block?

If you already have a good aftermarket or R block, then its hard to justify the swap to a 351 based motor. If starting from scratch there is ZERO reason other than class racing to stay 302 based.

If you have a good block, I vote 363 with an 88mm minimum.

If you go 351 I vote 427+ci with twin billet 76's

Orrrrrrrr ERL 427, LS based, twin 7675s

Don't currently have a dart block, that's why I'm having the debate. I am starting from scratch.

Then go 351 based without a doubt

I'm all about that. I think that would be SICK!

I'm sticking with a ford motor. Not jumping ship, it's not that I don't like ls motors I just want it to be a ford.

Good man. One of the fastest cars in Dallas has a little Ford motor in it, so don't be worried.

I'd do a 427-454 stroker 9.5 decked Dart. You will want new heads and intake manifold with any sized motor you go with.

FYI, besides the headers/and a/c bracket (you already have a cowl hood), its $100 bucks more to build a 9.5 vs a 8.2 (what my dad was quoted)... All things equal is about 80-100rw difference. (454 vs 363 for instance), not to mention the monster torque differences.

Who are you referring to? Also we both know building new, a SBF is 2x if not more then a chevy....

He was talking to me. I know Chevy motors are cheaper to build but that's not what I want. I've built a blown 408 in a sportsman block years ago so I know they can be expensive but it the way I'm going. Also why I'm taking my time. My wife is going back to school so I can't just fork over the money at one time like I would like to. I'm going to get a plan figured out and start buying parts. That way when I get all the parts I can get it started

Hamilton. Unless he's gone LSX too... Pretty sure he has a baby windsor stroker...

Donnie, stick a terminator motor in it with a twinscrew on e85. 750rw all day easily. The bonus is Matt willhate it almost as much as he hates being employed. Lol

Lmfao, that cracks me up. But I would like to stay pushrod. I guess I just want to be old school about it.

Yeah Chris is a good example of a local fast SBF, but we both know thats a nice ass motor. But look at how many fast Chevy based motors there are...

I guess I'm still a cheap ass, I also like it when parts are easily available. I break too much and race way too much to deal with SBF's

In all honesty this car will never see the track and isn't raced often. I just want to build something in the 650 to 750 range. Nothing ridiculous, I never plan on having the fastest car

Donnie isn't a punk ass bitch to do something like that.

I like my new new job, thank you very much. :)

A sbf can be built just as cheap as an ls motor and make comparable power if you know what you are doing. It's just an air pump. The 347 in my car now can be duplicated for around 3k with brand new parts, or less then 2k with used parts and you building it and it made 430 to the tires, got 20+ mpg hwy and drove great.

In that case, get a B351 sportsman block, make it a 408 and put decent heads on it. 15 or so psi on pump and you will be around 650-700rw. Its a proven formula.

A pushrod motor will be much cheaper then that and make just as much if not more power depending on how aggressive you get with it.

:pepper:

Same thing can be done with an LS motor cheaper, and no SBF I've ever owned got the same mileage as any LS I've owned. Which have been a LOT of both

With a pushrod Ford it will be a radical, vibrating, noisy, smelly hot rod type car his wife and kids wont enjoy riding around in for any length of time. With a smooth four valve terminator set up it will drive like a stock car until he puts his foot in it to hear that wonderful whone noise and tons of torque at near idle. Not to mention worlds easier to tune and get inspected as well. Modern tech is a wonderful thing.

I will agree the ls gets better mileage, but apples to apples they cost about the same to build with similar hp results. I have built a bunch of both, my ls1 in the truck actually ended up costing more then My 347 in the mustang. I doubt he is much worried about fuel mileage if he wants a big hp car. It's is nice but doesn't always come with the territory. Different strokes man.

A short stoke 347 with the proper cam, heads, intake with a little boost from that monster blower will easily make 600-700 and drive smooth as can be.

I couldn't agree more.

What rods and pistons would you use with a short stroke 347? Would that be a 331 rod with the bigger 363 pistons?

Yes and no. A 347 and 331 both use the same rod but the compression height is different thus different pistons. normally you would use a 3.25 stroke crankshaft, along with a 5.4 rod and a 4.125 bore piston. Personally I would use a 3.25 stroke crankshaft, a sbc 5.7 rod, along with a set of custom built pistons that have the correct xompression height that will put you at a zero deck and 4.125 bore. Reason for the sbc rods, is because they are readily available and having the longer rod gives you a better rod angle thus less side load on the pistons and less pressure and friction on the cylinder walls which could equal a smoother runing engine that will last longer and make more power. but you will need to get a crank that has the rod journal cut to fit the 2.1" sbc rod journal rather then the conventional 2.123 sbf journal. most of the parts will be easy to get ots parts except the pistons. they may need to be custom made but i would have to do the math to figure the compression height needed along with the correct pin size, and ring placement and thickness for the application. I will have to do the math later but it would make a killer combo IMO!!

What Toby said... i have basically that setup going in my car but it is a long rod big bore 351 instead of a 331... (374 cid vs 347). same concept, just larger block with a tad more stroke 3.5 vs 3.25.

Now that sounds like something I would be interested in. I like the sound of that combo. How hard would it be to find a crank with those specs?

Would not be a problem. It's all ots parts

Well I guess I am going Internet shopping. I want to start picking up parts here and there so I can get ready for my build.

I would suggest Callie's crank and rods, wiseco pistons. Give us a call at the shop, I will help ensure you get the correct parts.

Toby

I just looked up Callie's crank and holy hell they are nice. But holy fuck they are expensive. That might be over kill for what I'm wanting to build. I'm not sure I will ever turn her up past 700 and if I do it won't be above 800.

Id reco Lunati or Sonny Bryant crank, Oliver or Carillo rods and Je or Venolia pistons... but it might be out of the budget.

Callie cranks and lunati are the same price. The rods you mentioned are the same as Callie's as well. This isn't something I was going to buy all at one time, so the cost will be spread out a little but damn at this rate I'm looking at a 7k short block or more including machine work. The damn block I'm looking at is almost $2300. Damn the price of having fun.

All of that is waay over kill for his setup. The parts I mentioned Will be good for around 1100-1200 hp. Should give him plenty of room to grow should he choose. And IMO wiseco pistons are far superior to je in every way. The last 10 sets or so of je I have installed in the past year, I have been less then impressed with. Just my .02