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-   -   Shaun@ AED explains #8 failures. (http://www.dfw50s.com/showthread.php?t=528)

Grandpa 10-15-2012 04:41 PM

Shaun@ AED explains #8 failures.
 
What do you think?




Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun@AED (Post 12317177)
Just a little more info (nothing too technical) on what's going on these days with regards to Coyote engine failures.

Those engine builders who have seen these kind of engine failures are keenly aware the problem is a LEAN condition at WOT. This is evident by the type of piston damage seen. Spark knock creates a sharp break in the piston, lean conditions melt the piston.

Ford has adopted what others in the industry have used for quite a while. Lean A/F to create a 'broader' torque curve.

Below is a dynograph of an Twin Turbo Mercedes E63 on both the Stock tune and aftermarket.
Note the flat TQ curve of the stock tune and check out the crazy lean Air Fuel!
http://ecutuninggroup.com/files/2011...urbo-Dyno2.jpg

This is the EXACT same thing Ford programed into the Copperhead Coyote/Roadrunner ECU's.

In our case it's triggered by the Torque Calculations. As we reach the TQ limits in the tune, the ECU pulls fuel to create a 'broad' torque curve.

How do they not blow up the engines you may wonder?
Exhaust temps are monitored and in the case of our Fords, Cat enrichment is initiated at a given exhaust temp to combat Cat failure.

Below is a screenshot of a STOCK 2012 5.0 with this condition in full view:
Yellow line is COMMANDED Lambda and as it approaches 1.0 (14.1 Air Fuel) Fueling enrichment kicks in to save the Cats from damage (inadvertently saving the motor as well).
So why don't we see this on a chassis dyno? Check out the time it took for the lean condition to start....when was the last time you saw a WOT dyno run last 15+ seconds?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ogSnapshot.png

AED and their tuning partners found this late last year (Dec 2011). Once the offending Tune parameter was found we started testing on my own 5.0 with E85 in the tank to insure against any potential engine damage. Compression tests were done pre and post fix as well.
Further investigation showed more ways in which this lean WOT condition was triggered, but instead of investigating each one individually we found the commanded fueling for these conditions and modified it correctly.

As of Jan 2012 ALL AED tunes have this 'fix', as well as our tuning partners/buddies and ANY tuner that has called me and requested this information.
Of the hundreds of 5.0 tunes sent out between all of these tuners, not ONE has had an engine failure since the 'fix' has been implemented.

Some of my tuning partners have requested I refrain from posting specific technical data on these public message boards, but I prefer to have a more informed customer base.


03MachMe 10-15-2012 05:01 PM

Good to know. was reading about a number 8 failure last night on SVTP and it kinda scared me not going to lie lol

Grandpa 10-15-2012 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03MachMe (Post 7665)
Good to know. was reading about a number 8 failure last night on SVTP and it kinda scared me not going to lie lol

I'm right there with you on it. Everyone has been giving me crap about my quiet, stock car, but I'm just doing my research before doing anything. If you read the internet too much, you'd think these cars are ticking time bombs! lol

03MachMe 10-15-2012 05:25 PM

I think for now if anything I'm going to the Procal installed at teh dealer to keep the warranty

Grandpa 10-15-2012 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03MachMe (Post 7673)
I think for now if anything I'm going to the Procal installed at teh dealer to keep the warranty

I thought about that too. After looking into it, I don't think it's worth the money in my opinion. Not for what you get out of it. I'd just rather keep it stock until I decided to get a real tune rather than messing with the dealer at all and the minimal gains for the high cost.

BLK2012GT 10-15-2012 05:35 PM

Steve just mod your car and tune it at TS and be done with it and fall in love with your car all over again.

Midnight11 10-15-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03MachMe (Post 7673)
I think for now if anything I'm going to the Procal installed at teh dealer to keep the warranty

dont worry about it we have a 13!:favorites37:

Toby 10-15-2012 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 7679)
Steve just mod your car and tune it at TS and be done with it and fall in love with your car all over again.

Not a single 5.0 running one of our tunes, have dealt with a single issue...

Grandpa 10-15-2012 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 7679)
Steve just mod your car and tune it at TS and be done with it and fall in love with your car all over again.

I am, just deciding the right way to go about it. This is my process, I research everything, it's just how I do things. lol. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby (Post 7685)
Not a single 5.0 running one of our tunes, have dealt with a single issue...

That's really good to know. I'm trying to decide which way to go and get as much information as I can about the #8 failures.

Truestreet is always my choice to go with when I can afford it, you know that, but unfortunately shop prices have gotten really high, not just you guys, but all shops.

I'm waiting to see what AED's pricing is, but I can't say I'm excited about doing email tuning even though it is street dataloged tuning which is good. I'd much rather have Sean tune it if I can.

Midnight11 10-15-2012 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby (Post 7685)
Not a single 5.0 running one of our tunes, have dealt with a single issue...

i read that ford called #8 bama bulletin for american muscle lol

Grandpa 10-15-2012 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight11 (Post 7689)
i read that ford called #8 bama bulletin for american muscle lol

I've read a lot of stories about popped motors from Bama. I wouldn't let them tune my car for free. lol.

Grandpa 10-15-2012 09:39 PM

AED custom tunes with street datalogging is $200 bucks. Pretty reasonable. Better price than I was expecting.

Midnight11 10-15-2012 09:42 PM

thats the going rate... lund is the same

Grandpa 10-15-2012 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight11 (Post 7693)
thats the going rate... lund is the same

Lund is still having #8 issues.

BLK2012GT 10-15-2012 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 7692)
AED custom tunes with street datalogging is $200 bucks. Pretty reasonable. Better price than I was expecting.

Spend the extra couple hundred dollars and get it done right.


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