Dallas Fort Worth 5.0 Mustang Club - View Single Post - Vorshlag 2011 Mustang 5.0 GT

Fair · 09-30-2013, 04:13 PM

continued from above

What Did We Learn At Nationals?

Reflecting back on this Nationals week, heck, this last year of running TT in NASA, we have learned a lot of lessons, and I'm sure we have many more to still learn. The experience of going to NASA Nationals was both informative and fun for our entire crew - and even the guys at the shop who didn't join us there. Coming home with a trophy was a good feeling, especially after starting the week off so slow and so far back (the car got 5.3 seconds faster from Thursday to Sunday).

Here are some of the little bits of wisdom that I humbly share with you after this Nationals experience:

The power to weight ratios in TT's numbered classes are better explained in the ST rules. Most people were cheating themselves, running too much weight or too little power until the TT directors got us straightened out. Yes, even at Nationals, mistakes were often made on classing sheets.
Don't run 40-60 pounds heavy for your class then complain if you lose by .017 seconds. In NASA, the power and weight matter a lot.
Don't fear the dyno - get a dyno test done AT Nationals on the OFFICIAL dyno early in the week. Ask for a weight check early and often, too. You will want to have a good "tested legal" date to fall back on, in case a later test is blown.
High altitude tracks can produce funky dyno numbers - be prepared to have to de-tune or add weight when the conditions are very different from your home track.
There is no substitute for fresh race tires. Ever. The normal tire strategies we use at Regional NASA events (R6s for most of the laps, A6 for a single session and faster hot lap) can work well, but at Nationals we needed more sticker sets. Showing up on used or worn tires was a big mistake, as we were partially tuning around bad tires. Neal Roberts had taught us this. Economics got the better of us.
Making huge changes to the car or set-up right before Nationals is a bad idea. Pick a time period a month or two before Nationals and LOCK DOWN YOUR SET-UP. Don't count on the 4 days of TT sessions to help fine tune the set-up, either.
Don't skimp on your trailer tires. On an enclosed 2 or 3 axle trailer, bring two mounted spares plus at least a third unmounted spare trailer tire. Keep one spare + the axle lift ramp + a proper lug wrench right next to the trailer side door for easy access.
Towing over the Rocky Mountains is the suck, no matter what vehicle you are using. Going "around" the mountains is easier than going over the worst passes. Plan your route accordingly. On the return trip we heard of some folks seeing ice on the roads on the difficult passes.
If you are going to Nationals and have never run the track before, get there at least a day early to practice. Budget for this with time and tires.
If you have doubts about fuel availability or quality at the track, bring your own fuel. We spent a small fortune on 100 octane race fuel to mix with the 91 octane "Premium" they use in Utah.
When it comes to numbered TT classes (TTU/1/2/3), don't skimp on the aero. EVERY SINGLE top TT3 car had excellent wings, splitters, and low drag tricks. Nobody in TT3 used the "better" 9:1 optional ratio for using stock aero... every fast car took the weight hit to use aftermarket aero.
Too much front downforce can be a bad thing (we've since made a 2nd splitter that is 4" shorter - see my next event write-up on how that worked).
Don't do your aero set-up testing at a track that only has low speed corners (duh).
High speed tracks require SERIOUS braking systems. Don't skimp, and "bigger is better" applies.
Don't bring a street car to run in the top TT classes at Nationals and expect to win. It might work at a Region level, and it might have worked at Nationals in the past, but the top guys show up to Nationals in serious race cars.

I hope our mistakes and experiences can help you make the right choices for your TT build, if and when you decide to try your hand at this sport. And I hope reading our posts encourages that goal for most HPDE folks. Why? Because after a while just "running a DE" can get boring. There are not rules, times, or competition to drive you. Just "driving around a track" doesn't teach you much, once you have gone through instruction and are Solo'd. We've seen a lot of HPDE drivers moving towards TT, and I think that is great. But don't assume you have to go W2W racing after you get to TT. Many of us don't want or need the added risks, costs and damage potential that W2W racing has. If you can afford to write off your car after some asshat punts you off track and destroys your car, and that won't upset you too badly, then by all means... go right ahead.

Because that can and does happen in W2W, but not in TT.

Hard Choices - Selling BOTH Mustangs?

Unfortunately we still need to sell the 2013 GT, and it has taken so long now that I'm forced to put the 2011 GT up for sale now, too. I know, that sucks - trust me, I don't want to do this. We had planned on selling the 2011 at the end of this year or in the Spring of 2014, to make room for the all new 2015 Mustang we want to buy, prep and race in 2014. That is still happening, but with so much $$$ tied up in both Mustangs, I need to move them sooner rather than later. We had hoped we could keep the red car for a while longer, but expanding the business needs cash right now and both of our S197 projects are going on the auction block. Look for an updated ad for the 2013 GT and a new for sale ad for the 2011 GT soon.

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09-30-2013, 04:13 PM	#223
Fair Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 333	continued from above What Did We Learn At Nationals? Reflecting back on this Nationals week, heck, this last year of running TT in NASA, we have learned a lot of lessons, and I'm sure we have many more to still learn. The experience of going to NASA Nationals was both informative and fun for our entire crew - and even the guys at the shop who didn't join us there. Coming home with a trophy was a good feeling, especially after starting the week off so slow and so far back (the car got 5.3 seconds faster from Thursday to Sunday). Here are some of the little bits of wisdom that I humbly share with you after this Nationals experience: The power to weight ratios in TT's numbered classes are better explained in the ST rules. Most people were cheating themselves, running too much weight or too little power until the TT directors got us straightened out. Yes, even at Nationals, mistakes were often made on classing sheets. Don't run 40-60 pounds heavy for your class then complain if you lose by .017 seconds. In NASA, the power and weight matter a lot. Don't fear the dyno - get a dyno test done AT Nationals on the OFFICIAL dyno early in the week. Ask for a weight check early and often, too. You will want to have a good "tested legal" date to fall back on, in case a later test is blown. High altitude tracks can produce funky dyno numbers - be prepared to have to de-tune or add weight when the conditions are very different from your home track. There is no substitute for fresh race tires. Ever. The normal tire strategies we use at Regional NASA events (R6s for most of the laps, A6 for a single session and faster hot lap) can work well, but at Nationals we needed more sticker sets. Showing up on used or worn tires was a big mistake, as we were partially tuning around bad tires. Neal Roberts had taught us this. Economics got the better of us. Making huge changes to the car or set-up right before Nationals is a bad idea. Pick a time period a month or two before Nationals and LOCK DOWN YOUR SET-UP. Don't count on the 4 days of TT sessions to help fine tune the set-up, either. Don't skimp on your trailer tires. On an enclosed 2 or 3 axle trailer, bring two mounted spares plus at least a third unmounted spare trailer tire. Keep one spare + the axle lift ramp + a proper lug wrench right next to the trailer side door for easy access. Towing over the Rocky Mountains is the suck, no matter what vehicle you are using. Going "around" the mountains is easier than going over the worst passes. Plan your route accordingly. On the return trip we heard of some folks seeing ice on the roads on the difficult passes. If you are going to Nationals and have never run the track before, get there at least a day early to practice. Budget for this with time and tires. If you have doubts about fuel availability or quality at the track, bring your own fuel. We spent a small fortune on 100 octane race fuel to mix with the 91 octane "Premium" they use in Utah. When it comes to numbered TT classes (TTU/1/2/3), don't skimp on the aero. EVERY SINGLE top TT3 car had excellent wings, splitters, and low drag tricks. Nobody in TT3 used the "better" 9:1 optional ratio for using stock aero... every fast car took the weight hit to use aftermarket aero. Too much front downforce can be a bad thing (we've since made a 2nd splitter that is 4" shorter - see my next event write-up on how that worked). Don't do your aero set-up testing at a track that only has low speed corners (duh). High speed tracks require SERIOUS braking systems. Don't skimp, and "bigger is better" applies. Don't bring a street car to run in the top TT classes at Nationals and expect to win. It might work at a Region level, and it might have worked at Nationals in the past, but the top guys show up to Nationals in serious race cars. I hope our mistakes and experiences can help you make the right choices for your TT build, if and when you decide to try your hand at this sport. And I hope reading our posts encourages that goal for most HPDE folks. Why? Because after a while just "running a DE" can get boring. There are not rules, times, or competition to drive you. Just "driving around a track" doesn't teach you much, once you have gone through instruction and are Solo'd. We've seen a lot of HPDE drivers moving towards TT, and I think that is great. But don't assume you have to go W2W racing after you get to TT. Many of us don't want or need the added risks, costs and damage potential that W2W racing has. If you can afford to write off your car after some asshat punts you off track and destroys your car, and that won't upset you too badly, then by all means... go right ahead. Because that can and does happen in W2W, but not in TT. Hard Choices - Selling BOTH Mustangs? Unfortunately we still need to sell the 2013 GT, and it has taken so long now that I'm forced to put the 2011 GT up for sale now, too. I know, that sucks - trust me, I don't want to do this. We had planned on selling the 2011 at the end of this year or in the Spring of 2014, to make room for the all new 2015 Mustang we want to buy, prep and race in 2014. That is still happening, but with so much $$$ tied up in both Mustangs, I need to move them sooner rather than later. We had hoped we could keep the red car for a while longer, but expanding the business needs cash right now and both of our S197 projects are going on the auction block. Look for an updated ad for the 2013 GT and a new for sale ad for the 2011 GT soon. continued below