Dallas Fort Worth 5.0 Mustang Club - View Single Post - Vorshlag 2011 Mustang 5.0 GT

Fair · 04-08-2014, 11:24 AM

continued from above

Even the "iron" component is becoming less evident, with engine blocks mostly in aluminum and sheet metal going over to composites & carbon fiber. There are Pro Touring cars with 4 pound fiberglass doors, Lexan windows, CF front ends, and big aero, with exotic materials and methods creeping in. And why not? There are essentially NO RULES in most of these series - even fewer than the admittedly open NASA Time Trial "numbered classes" (TT1/2/3) that we here at Vorshlag campaign in. On top of that PT cars usually have show quality paint, bodywork, interior coverings and more. You can spend a lot of money building a fast Pro Touring car, and the arms race doesn't seem to be slowing down. With top name street rod and race shops building these cars, price tags in the $100-200K range are not uncommon.

A Pro Touring Camaro being built with an LS9 engine, custom crossmember and firewall, modern suspension

I'm not saying they should change anything in Goodguys, ASCA, Optima or USCA, not hardly. More power to 'em! These cars are beautiful and fun to watch, and these groups all put on helluva show. I'd give my right arm to be able to own one of these Pro built cars, or to have clients that trusted us enough to let Vorshlag build one for them. But that's not what we do, and the PT type scenes is really not what the SCCA is about, either (more on that in a second). Sure, the 200 treadwear tire limitation does ultimately put some limits what you can do that really matters, and the 3000 pound minimum weight for the main class in USCA is a good number, but these series and the PT cars that enter them are going to get wilder and less recognizable as time goes on.

A classic Camaro built around SCCA Solo rules looks almost nothing like a PT car underneath

Why do I bring this up? Because the SCCA created a class explicitly to attract Pro Touring cars called Classic American Muscle. And this class has the fewest rules of any class SCCA has created in the history of Solo. Jason Rhodes deliberates on the many problems with the ruleset in CAM. Jason built the 1967 Camaro Z/28 shown above for STX class, only to have it moved to a less competitive STU class a year after its debut. If you look at the CAM rules from a racer's point of view there are some crazy things that you could build. And in typical SCCA style, the rules makers haven't thought this through very well, and when (not if) these wild creations show up there will be a series of TAKE BACKS and rules changes the likes of which have never been seen.

Brian Hobaugh's Pro Touring Camaro ran in C Prepared class at the Solo Nationals, and did very well

We always complain about rules, and some of us have wished for more unlimited rulesets... just be careful what you wish for. Instead of fixing the issues in STX and STU classes, with respect to the modern Muscle Cars, the SCCA punted all pony cars into STU and seem to be ignoring any requests for allowances because "they can just run in CAM". But CAM is not a National class, and probably never will be - at least with the wide open rules it has now. I think creating CAM was a mistake, in this form, and removes all impetus to fix the pony car problems in STX and STU.

That being said, I'm going to be doing some autocross testing on street tires by running some SCCA Solo events in CAM class (and in our region they have split it by years, so we will run in MAM or Modern American Muscle). This will hopefully help us tweak the set-up and improve my driving to get ready for the Optima Invitational in Vegas. I actually renewed my SCCA membership last week (shocking!) and have already signed up for an event this weekend at TMS bus lot. But that doesn't mean I'm "building for CAM", no no no. If I was, first I'd ask someone to smack me over the head. Next, it would be a dedicated build along the lines that Rhodes laid out, but that would be a spending war that I wouldn't want to be a part of 2 years form now when the class either blows up and gets a rules re-write, or dies away from lack of attendance.

We tilted at windmills in SCCA's STX class for 2 years, and briefly in STU. I'd rather not be a part of the Solo Circus again

Anyway, I made that brief foray into the history of Pro Touring just to see how it has evolved and relates to the STX/STU/CAM/MAM classes within SCCA, which I honestly don't have any heart to fight for anymore. SCCA Solo is going to do whatever it is going to do, and I'm not going to get involved more than casually entering a few local autocross events to use for practice for another series. I caution anyone looking at CAM as "the answer" to the woes of the pony car drivers that may have formerly run in STX/STU classes. CAM might never take off, and if it does, be prepared for MAJOR changes when the rules makers figure out what they have left open to exploit. Enjoy!

USCA at TMS, Saturday March 22nd, 2014

Now that the house cleaning, PT history and SCCA rules discussion is out of the way, let's cover the Saturday series of events at the USCA qualifier at TMS on March 22nd! On this day we were to compete in two of the toughest competitions: the Speed Stop and Autocross. I will discuss each event separately, but we were running these both concurrently off and on all day Saturday.

The USCA driver's meeting (left) was held after the ChumpCar driver's meeting (right) in the same garage, an hour earlier

We had a driver's meeting early that morning at 8:30 am, right as the 12 hour ChumpCar race that was being held Saturday on the infield road course had started. We were told that the last digit in our assigned car numbers would determine which group we were in, "Odd" or "Even". We were given some time to walk both courses, and I took it, walking the large autocross course 3 times and the speed stop twice.

Ride-Tech Autocross Course

I will start with this Saturday event first, since I was in the "Odd" group that started out on the Autocross course first, and then we switched about every hour between this and Speed Stop. Towards the end of the day both courses were open to anyone, and lots of people had stopped running while others kept taking lots of runs.

Before we got going I took my walk-throughs a little more seriously and jogged / walked briskly by myself two times after walking it once with some friends, to get a good look at the autocross course. Chatting with others is normal on your walk-thrus but I've learned that I absorb a lot more of the course when I walk by myself, without distractions.

The course was set-up by an experienced SCCA autocrosser and it looked good, and nothing like the Goodguys gymkhana course. This made me very happy, as it would more suit a "normal car" and not the strange gearing and insanely tight turn-arounds that the Goodguys courses focus on. It wasn't an "easier" course than the weekend before, per se, just more flowing and with higher average speeds. Gone were the worries of another "1st gear only" course and as I walked the site it felt like a perfect 2nd gear course for our 3.31 geared Mustang - and it was. There were a LOT of cones and they even lined the course with white chalk, so it should be hard to get lost. If you did make a mistake I could see where there would be a lot of cones to collect.

04-08-2014, 11:24 AM	#311
Fair Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 333	continued from above Even the "iron" component is becoming less evident, with engine blocks mostly in aluminum and sheet metal going over to composites & carbon fiber. There are Pro Touring cars with 4 pound fiberglass doors, Lexan windows, CF front ends, and big aero, with exotic materials and methods creeping in. And why not? There are essentially NO RULES in most of these series - even fewer than the admittedly open NASA Time Trial "numbered classes" (TT1/2/3) that we here at Vorshlag campaign in. On top of that PT cars usually have show quality paint, bodywork, interior coverings and more. You can spend a lot of money building a fast Pro Touring car, and the arms race doesn't seem to be slowing down. With top name street rod and race shops building these cars, price tags in the $100-200K range are not uncommon. A Pro Touring Camaro being built with an LS9 engine, custom crossmember and firewall, modern suspension I'm not saying they should change anything in Goodguys, ASCA, Optima or USCA, not hardly. More power to 'em! These cars are beautiful and fun to watch, and these groups all put on helluva show. I'd give my right arm to be able to own one of these Pro built cars, or to have clients that trusted us enough to let Vorshlag build one for them. But that's not what we do, and the PT type scenes is really not what the SCCA is about, either (more on that in a second). Sure, the 200 treadwear tire limitation does ultimately put some limits what you can do that really matters, and the 3000 pound minimum weight for the main class in USCA is a good number, but these series and the PT cars that enter them are going to get wilder and less recognizable as time goes on. A classic Camaro built around SCCA Solo rules looks almost nothing like a PT car underneath Why do I bring this up? Because the SCCA created a class explicitly to attract Pro Touring cars called Classic American Muscle. And this class has the fewest rules of any class SCCA has created in the history of Solo. Jason Rhodes deliberates on the many problems with the ruleset in CAM. Jason built the 1967 Camaro Z/28 shown above for STX class, only to have it moved to a less competitive STU class a year after its debut. If you look at the CAM rules from a racer's point of view there are some crazy things that you could build. And in typical SCCA style, the rules makers haven't thought this through very well, and when (not if) these wild creations show up there will be a series of TAKE BACKS and rules changes the likes of which have never been seen. Brian Hobaugh's Pro Touring Camaro ran in C Prepared class at the Solo Nationals, and did very well We always complain about rules, and some of us have wished for more unlimited rulesets... just be careful what you wish for. Instead of fixing the issues in STX and STU classes, with respect to the modern Muscle Cars, the SCCA punted all pony cars into STU and seem to be ignoring any requests for allowances because "they can just run in CAM". But CAM is not a National class, and probably never will be - at least with the wide open rules it has now. I think creating CAM was a mistake, in this form, and removes all impetus to fix the pony car problems in STX and STU. That being said, I'm going to be doing some autocross testing on street tires by running some SCCA Solo events in CAM class (and in our region they have split it by years, so we will run in MAM or Modern American Muscle). This will hopefully help us tweak the set-up and improve my driving to get ready for the Optima Invitational in Vegas. I actually renewed my SCCA membership last week (shocking!) and have already signed up for an event this weekend at TMS bus lot. But that doesn't mean I'm "building for CAM", no no no. If I was, first I'd ask someone to smack me over the head. Next, it would be a dedicated build along the lines that Rhodes laid out, but that would be a spending war that I wouldn't want to be a part of 2 years form now when the class either blows up and gets a rules re-write, or dies away from lack of attendance. We tilted at windmills in SCCA's STX class for 2 years, and briefly in STU. I'd rather not be a part of the Solo Circus again Anyway, I made that brief foray into the history of Pro Touring just to see how it has evolved and relates to the STX/STU/CAM/MAM classes within SCCA, which I honestly don't have any heart to fight for anymore. SCCA Solo is going to do whatever it is going to do, and I'm not going to get involved more than casually entering a few local autocross events to use for practice for another series. I caution anyone looking at CAM as "the answer" to the woes of the pony car drivers that may have formerly run in STX/STU classes. CAM might never take off, and if it does, be prepared for MAJOR changes when the rules makers figure out what they have left open to exploit. Enjoy! USCA at TMS, Saturday March 22nd, 2014 Now that the house cleaning, PT history and SCCA rules discussion is out of the way, let's cover the Saturday series of events at the USCA qualifier at TMS on March 22nd! On this day we were to compete in two of the toughest competitions: the Speed Stop and Autocross. I will discuss each event separately, but we were running these both concurrently off and on all day Saturday. The USCA driver's meeting (left) was held after the ChumpCar driver's meeting (right) in the same garage, an hour earlier We had a driver's meeting early that morning at 8:30 am, right as the 12 hour ChumpCar race that was being held Saturday on the infield road course had started. We were told that the last digit in our assigned car numbers would determine which group we were in, "Odd" or "Even". We were given some time to walk both courses, and I took it, walking the large autocross course 3 times and the speed stop twice. Ride-Tech Autocross Course I will start with this Saturday event first, since I was in the "Odd" group that started out on the Autocross course first, and then we switched about every hour between this and Speed Stop. Towards the end of the day both courses were open to anyone, and lots of people had stopped running while others kept taking lots of runs. Before we got going I took my walk-throughs a little more seriously and jogged / walked briskly by myself two times after walking it once with some friends, to get a good look at the autocross course. Chatting with others is normal on your walk-thrus but I've learned that I absorb a lot more of the course when I walk by myself, without distractions. The course was set-up by an experienced SCCA autocrosser and it looked good, and nothing like the Goodguys gymkhana course. This made me very happy, as it would more suit a "normal car" and not the strange gearing and insanely tight turn-arounds that the Goodguys courses focus on. It wasn't an "easier" course than the weekend before, per se, just more flowing and with higher average speeds. Gone were the worries of another "1st gear only" course and as I walked the site it felt like a perfect 2nd gear course for our 3.31 geared Mustang - and it was. There were a LOT of cones and they even lined the course with white chalk, so it should be hard to get lost. If you did make a mistake I could see where there would be a lot of cones to collect.