Originally Posted by modmustang97gt
While it is nice to switch to the stock parts to avoid the points. It doesn't seem all that fair or encouraging that if I remove a spoiler and upgrade my brakes from stock to cobra pieces. I now have the same point assessment as someone with a G Stream rear wing and baer 6-pot brakes. Yet, the point assessment is the same.
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Exactly my point...
Originally Posted by modmustang97gt
The problem with rule sets is that vagueness seems like its encouraging until someone really figures it out. Everyone runs what they brung until someone shows up with their brilliant flavor of the week, and now no one is having fun. This is why spec classes are so popular.
Its the price you pay I guess for a proper attempt at equality.
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Well, its a pretty half-hearted attempt at "equality", in my view, when no rear cosmetic spoiler = huge CF wing. The whole note about "optional parts not on the base trim car have to take points"
isn't even in the NASA TT rules, its a
note attached to some
online form. Seriously.
NASA TT is unique in that it has one person is making all of the base classing, modification point assessments, and rules, so we naturally get rules made from one person's point of view only. I wasn't the only one in the dark about this, so I (and others) have been trying to point out the absurdity of a factory spoiler delete having the same points as a full on race wing, over on the
NASA Forum thread where this was pointed out to me. The Nat'l TT Director responded with this:
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Originally Posted by Greg G.
How about this---a driver takes off the OEM wing for the higher speed tracks that have less turns requiring rear downforce and more gain from less drag, and puts it back on for other tracks where the wing results in better lap times due to the need for more rear downforce. There is clearly a performance gain by doing this "modification". The amount of that gain would/could be different for each of the 800+ different car models possibly competing. So, we are back to "If the modification costs more points for your particular vehicle than it is worth, then don't do the Mod."
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And my reply:
I get that, and I'm now not saying that removing an OEM style wing should be free... but +4 points? Its the severity of this penalty that sticks in my craw.
Let's look at an example: The race wing shown above (G-Stream CF) as used on the Boss 302S race cars are +4 points, is adjustable, and produces real downforce. It can be even bigger for the same points in TT: as wide as the car (71"), up to 8" above the roofline, and limited to 12" tall end plates. No chord length limits. So a giant CF race wing is the same points penalty as removing a cosmetic OEM wing? That's my point.
Almost every OEM wing ever produced is not producing much down force, and is built for styling/cosmetic reasons. Even the "big" wings on STis and EVOs produce very little down force. One of the few cars that had an adjustable, down force producing wing were some adjustable units used on Porsche GT3s. If there was a slight tweak to the wing rule, maybe stating...
"Any OEM wing (or exact replica) made for the same model series/chassis can be used, or none at all, for +1. Any OEM wing that has adjustable angle of attack is +4"
Just a thought.
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Figured I'd share that here, just to show everyone where I'm coming from (and I've had a lot of PMs, along the same lines). So with all of these points for OEM options on our car, its clear to me that staying in TTB with any 2011 GT that isn't ordered at the most basic, Spartan trim level - with no zero cost options whatsoever - is almost an impossibility. I've counted over 12 points worth of TT mod points that my car could have
just with OEM options. So I'm going to say "to Hell with it" and just do the mods that are legal in SCCA STX class and "run whatever TT class it falls into", like I had originally planned.
To that end, today I ordered a bunch of parts that will hopefully add something to the car (with respect to aero) for NASA or SCCA use. First was the (optional on the 2011 GT) CS lower valance (+3), then a 2011 GT "optional" 4-pedestal OEM rear wing (for STX use only, and totally legal there), and an APR Performance GTC-300 wing (67" wide, 3D airfoil shape) for TT use. Plus some other bits I'll show later - but I did
not get the (now optional on the 2011 GT) lower rear GT500 valance, as it wasn't worth the cost ($270 shipped) or NASA points, and did nothing for performance (it was purely cosmetic). For the GTC300 wing we'll make the uprights and endplates to fit the TT rules, and use it only for TT. Since I'm already taking
4 freagin points for "no wing"
I'm going to have a real wing, by Damn! 
Left: The 2011 "base trim" GT lower front valance. Right: The 2011 optional "CS" lower front valance
The CS valance above ($240, shipped)
should be here by Friday morning, so we'll get the front end pulled off and ready, and have it installed before we load the car into the trailer and head down to Houston for the NASA event his weekend at MSR-H. We've still got points to spare within TTB, at least for a little while longer (we don't even have swaybars or any exhaust work on the car yet), so that +3 won't hurt us much right now, and we can't do a splitter (again, for TT) on the front w/o this flat bottomed CS lower valance.
Sorry for all of the complaining and moaning about NASA rules - they are what they are, and the situation won't change anytime soon, so - oh well.
I'll just go out there and try to have fun, and see where the car's at for now. I've never even run at MSR-H, so I don't have much hope for matching the
TTB track record there (1:42.675, set by an BMW E46 M3 in Jan-09). Even with all of this drama, I'm still pumped to get back onto a
dry track - its been too many months.
We now have all new NASA regional leadership in Texas, and they seem like really nice folks (from the Rocky Mountain region), so hopefully the event will run more timely than in the past - that's the plan, at least. They've already added more event dates for the Texas region (8 so far), which is up from the previous 6 we used to have. And hopefully my HPDE students won't kill me on track, ha.
Doing some final track prep on the Mustang today and tomorrow. I just picked up the trailer, AJ already reset the Mustang's front alignment, and I'm about to go out and slap on the class numbers & letters. Tomorrow we need to mount the two transponders and the CS valance on Friday morning - if it shows up in time. I'll post up with times, pics and such after the event, on Monday.
Getting close!