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Old 10-15-2012, 04:41 PM   #1
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Default Shaun@ AED explains #8 failures.

What do you think?




Originally Posted by Shaun@AED View Post
Just a little more info (nothing too technical) on what's going on these days with regards to Coyote engine failures.

Those engine builders who have seen these kind of engine failures are keenly aware the problem is a LEAN condition at WOT. This is evident by the type of piston damage seen. Spark knock creates a sharp break in the piston, lean conditions melt the piston.

Ford has adopted what others in the industry have used for quite a while. Lean A/F to create a 'broader' torque curve.

Below is a dynograph of an Twin Turbo Mercedes E63 on both the Stock tune and aftermarket.
Note the flat TQ curve of the stock tune and check out the crazy lean Air Fuel!


This is the EXACT same thing Ford programed into the Copperhead Coyote/Roadrunner ECU's.

In our case it's triggered by the Torque Calculations. As we reach the TQ limits in the tune, the ECU pulls fuel to create a 'broad' torque curve.

How do they not blow up the engines you may wonder?
Exhaust temps are monitored and in the case of our Fords, Cat enrichment is initiated at a given exhaust temp to combat Cat failure.

Below is a screenshot of a STOCK 2012 5.0 with this condition in full view:
Yellow line is COMMANDED Lambda and as it approaches 1.0 (14.1 Air Fuel) Fueling enrichment kicks in to save the Cats from damage (inadvertently saving the motor as well).
So why don't we see this on a chassis dyno? Check out the time it took for the lean condition to start....when was the last time you saw a WOT dyno run last 15+ seconds?



AED and their tuning partners found this late last year (Dec 2011). Once the offending Tune parameter was found we started testing on my own 5.0 with E85 in the tank to insure against any potential engine damage. Compression tests were done pre and post fix as well.
Further investigation showed more ways in which this lean WOT condition was triggered, but instead of investigating each one individually we found the commanded fueling for these conditions and modified it correctly.

As of Jan 2012 ALL AED tunes have this 'fix', as well as our tuning partners/buddies and ANY tuner that has called me and requested this information.
Of the hundreds of 5.0 tunes sent out between all of these tuners, not ONE has had an engine failure since the 'fix' has been implemented.

Some of my tuning partners have requested I refrain from posting specific technical data on these public message boards, but I prefer to have a more informed customer base.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:01 PM   #2
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Good to know. was reading about a number 8 failure last night on SVTP and it kinda scared me not going to lie lol
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:20 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by 03MachMe View Post
Good to know. was reading about a number 8 failure last night on SVTP and it kinda scared me not going to lie lol
I'm right there with you on it. Everyone has been giving me crap about my quiet, stock car, but I'm just doing my research before doing anything. If you read the internet too much, you'd think these cars are ticking time bombs! lol

Last edited by Grandpa; 10-15-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #4
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I think for now if anything I'm going to the Procal installed at teh dealer to keep the warranty
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 03MachMe View Post
I think for now if anything I'm going to the Procal installed at teh dealer to keep the warranty
I thought about that too. After looking into it, I don't think it's worth the money in my opinion. Not for what you get out of it. I'd just rather keep it stock until I decided to get a real tune rather than messing with the dealer at all and the minimal gains for the high cost.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:35 PM   #6
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Steve just mod your car and tune it at TS and be done with it and fall in love with your car all over again.
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Originally Posted by SlowGreyGT View Post
I agree. A stick car shocks the tires MUCH harder and does it several times going down the track. With a big power stick car, the car is much more unsettled going down the track making it more of a challenge to ET well. A well running auto car is nothing more than just point and shoot. Which is great for a track car taking a lot of driver error out of the equation.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:32 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by BLK2012GT View Post
Steve just mod your car and tune it at TS and be done with it and fall in love with your car all over again.
Not a single 5.0 running one of our tunes, have dealt with a single issue...
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BLK2012GT View Post
Steve just mod your car and tune it at TS and be done with it and fall in love with your car all over again.
I am, just deciding the right way to go about it. This is my process, I research everything, it's just how I do things. lol.

Originally Posted by Toby View Post
Not a single 5.0 running one of our tunes, have dealt with a single issue...
That's really good to know. I'm trying to decide which way to go and get as much information as I can about the #8 failures.

Truestreet is always my choice to go with when I can afford it, you know that, but unfortunately shop prices have gotten really high, not just you guys, but all shops.

I'm waiting to see what AED's pricing is, but I can't say I'm excited about doing email tuning even though it is street dataloged tuning which is good. I'd much rather have Sean tune it if I can.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Toby View Post
Not a single 5.0 running one of our tunes, have dealt with a single issue...
i read that ford called #8 bama bulletin for american muscle lol
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:06 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by 03MachMe View Post
I think for now if anything I'm going to the Procal installed at teh dealer to keep the warranty
dont worry about it we have a 13!
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:39 PM   #11
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AED custom tunes with street datalogging is $200 bucks. Pretty reasonable. Better price than I was expecting.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
AED custom tunes with street datalogging is $200 bucks. Pretty reasonable. Better price than I was expecting.
Spend the extra couple hundred dollars and get it done right.
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Originally Posted by SlowGreyGT View Post
I agree. A stick car shocks the tires MUCH harder and does it several times going down the track. With a big power stick car, the car is much more unsettled going down the track making it more of a challenge to ET well. A well running auto car is nothing more than just point and shoot. Which is great for a track car taking a lot of driver error out of the equation.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by BLK2012GT View Post
Spend the extra couple hundred dollars and get it done right.
How is it more "right"?
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
How is it more "right"?
Instead of a email tune. It's better if they tune your car on the dyno
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Originally Posted by SlowGreyGT View Post
I agree. A stick car shocks the tires MUCH harder and does it several times going down the track. With a big power stick car, the car is much more unsettled going down the track making it more of a challenge to ET well. A well running auto car is nothing more than just point and shoot. Which is great for a track car taking a lot of driver error out of the equation.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
AED custom tunes with street datalogging is $200 bucks. Pretty reasonable. Better price than I was expecting.
AED from Sacramento area is prob the best for a can tune. True street for local dyno for sure
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Last edited by STROKD; 10-17-2012 at 07:59 PM.
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