Stock Internals and MT82 limits, FI preference

[KnightRider5.0]

I hope this hasn't been posted before, but as y'all have seen with other posts. I'm looking into forced induction for my 2012 5.0 with the MT82. I've been told by a few friends till they where blue in the face that my stock internals and transmission couldn't handle over 550 horse power safely. I was also told if I did I would shave significant life off of my engine and drive train. What's the truth and reality of it, because I know hundreds of people are running 600 hp cars with no problems. Last question and its just to see. Would you pick a root supercharger, centrifugal supercharger or turbo?

[downtime!]

I'm partial to roots style, Kenne Bell being what I run on mine. I'm at 625 hp, have been beating on it pretty good since Christmas, and so far so good. Have put about 12,000 miles on her since then, including a 3000 road trip last week to Ohio for a drag race. Ran 10.85 @ 130, got 31 mpg avg on the whole trip.

My MT82 has seen literally hundreds of launches, started the China Whine thing 2 years ago in Maryland, and has progressively gotten quieter as time has gone by. Not saying it's my favorite transmission by any means, but it has held up pretty damn well.

The secret to keeping these things alive above 600 hp is all in the tune, get a good one and then don't fuck with it (some people are tweakers, and just can't leave shit alone), and then drive it like you want it to stick around for a while. You can beat on them pretty regularly, but don't treat it like a race car. Be smart and it will reward you for a good long time.

[KnightRider5.0]

Originally Posted by downtime! I'm partial to roots style, Kenne Bell being what I run on mine. I'm at 625 hp, have been beating on it pretty good since Christmas, and so far so good. Have put about 12,000 miles on her since then, including a 3000 road trip last week to Ohio for a drag race. Ran 10.85 @ 130, got 31 mpg avg on the whole trip. My MT82 has seen literally hundreds of launches, started the China Whine thing 2 years ago in Maryland, and has progressively gotten quieter as time has gone by. Not saying it's my favorite transmission by any means, but it has held up pretty damn well. The secret to keeping these things alive above 600 hp is all in the tune, get a good one and then don't fuck with it (some people are tweakers, and just can't leave shit alone), and then drive it like you want it to stick around for a while. You can beat on them pretty regularly, but don't treat it like a race car. Be smart and it will reward you for a good long time.

Good food for thought, I appreciate it.

[GTRacerX]

I'm not and expert by any means but a lot from what I have heard on other forums is that the coyote motor can handle 600-650 rwhp, BUT that is gonna be all based on your driving habits....so if your flooring it to pick up a gallon of milk the block probably won't last that long. As far as the stock tranny I don't know it's limits. As for your choice in FI I have a 2002 single turbo GT and I love it! I have driven both roots and centri style supercharged mustangs and I just love the feel as efficiency of a turbo setup.

[KnightRider5.0]

Originally Posted by GTRacerX I'm not and expert by any means but a lot from what I have heard on other forums is that the coyote motor can handle 600-650 rwhp, BUT that is gonna be all based on your driving habits....so if your flooring it to pick up a gallon of milk the block probably won't last that long. As far as the stock tranny I don't know it's limits. As for your choice in FI I have a 2002 single turbo GT and I love it! I have driven both roots and centri style supercharged mustangs and I just love the feel as efficiency of a turbo setup.

Thanks for the input, my car gets "driven" but not beat on. I baby her till she warms up then every once in a while I floor it threw a couple gears smile and let off. Usually getting on the highway. I'm pretty much looking into FI to have the horsepower and enjoy it. My car will never be a track car.

[downtime!]

Just a little more food for thought, but there are quite a few stock internal 5.0's running around the area that make over 700, and have been for a while. They're all on E85, seems to give a little extra cushion on the bottom end limits, at least with a decently safe tune.

[GTRacerX]

Originally Posted by KnightRider5.0 Thanks for the input, my car gets "driven" but not beat on. I baby her till she warms up then every once in a while I floor it threw a couple gears smile and let off. Usually getting on the highway. I'm pretty much looking into FI to have the horsepower and enjoy it. My car will never be a track car.

With that said I would think the 600-650 rwhp range would be just fine. But note that a supercharger roots or centrifugal is always "on" while a turbo is only "working" when you're in the set rpm level.

Originally Posted by downtime! Just a little more food for thought, but there are quite a few stock internal 5.0's running around the area that make over 700, and have been for a while. They're all on E85, seems to give a little extra cushion on the bottom end limits, at least with a decently safe tune.

Agreed always gonna run a little cooler i.e. less chance of detenation running E85

[Luke]

I want boost

[5PointSlow]

my car makes 669/581 to the tires with 8.5psi full exhaust and E85. My MT82 is holding up just fine. car is still on the stock clutch as well. been 10.88@134 on street tires. I love the corn lol car has been this way for 12k miles now.

[re-rx7]

Originally Posted by downtime! I'm partial to roots style, Kenne Bell being what I run on mine. I'm at 625 hp, have been beating on it pretty good since Christmas, and so far so good. Have put about 12,000 miles on her since then, including a 3000 road trip last week to Ohio for a drag race. Ran 10.85 @ 130, got 31 mpg avg on the whole trip. My MT82 has seen literally hundreds of launches, started the China Whine thing 2 years ago in Maryland, and has progressively gotten quieter as time has gone by. Not saying it's my favorite transmission by any means, but it has held up pretty damn well. The secret to keeping these things alive above 600 hp is all in the tune, get a good one and then don't fuck with it (some people are tweakers, and just can't leave shit alone), and then drive it like you want it to stick around for a while. You can beat on them pretty regularly, but don't treat it like a race car. Be smart and it will reward you for a good long time.

Great post.

[Dan12GT]

It's definitely going to be all with the tune and your driving habits.

When I have the money to retire my Mustang as my daily and get a beater I will be going the FI route too. I think the safest approach would be to go with a centrifugal blower on lower boost. Its not as much of a torque shock to the internals and tranny and would have the potential to hold up in the long run better. You just have to come to the realization that on a stock motor you aren't going to be the fastest / most power mustang on the street when comparing to those with built motors but it will still be damn fun so long as you take care of the car.

Like Downtime mentioned, you have to be respectful of what you have and drive it accordingly.

[Grandpa]

Making a car live for a long time comes down to a few things, proper maintence, not beating the snot out of it at every opportunity and the tune itself. A bad tune can kill the most badass super built racecar motors just as easily as a stock motor. A rough driver can also cause alot of damage with constant abuse.

When talking about stress on engine/drivetrain components and which type of boost is the best for it, there is no doubt what so ever that turbos are best way to go. It's the most efficient setup and least stressful because it's making power on already spent energy, there is no belts creating parasitic load etc.

Roots style blowers and centri blowers are stressful on a motor putting a lot of heat into a motor, a blower that takes power from the motor in order to turn it to make boost and also puts a lot of stress on the front of the crank pulling on it all the time. The smaller the pulley, the tighter the belt it requires therefor putting even more stress on the crank.

Example, my buddy Jeremy runs a 3.4 Whipple on his Cobra with a fully built motor including a forged crank and still managed to snap off the crank snout with the balancer still attached right off the front of the block. So, depending on what set up you are running, a stock 5.0 crank is no match for a big roots style blower if you are going to beat on it all the time and hopefully you don't trash the block in the process.

Turbos have none of those issues. It makes power from already used energy, no belts stealing power from the motor. Does not shock the motor/drivetrain as violently as blowers because the power comes in more linear rather than when you downshift a blower car and BOOM, it hits hard pulling on the rotating assembly instantly. Over time, it causes quite abit of stress and damage even to the most civlized drivers.

Yes, you can make a car live a long time, but it's all in how you treat it. Which is why you hear so many varying stories about a car breaking at 550rw or 750rw. Chances are those drivers treat their cars very differently or one had a better tune than the other.

[KnightRider5.0]

Originally Posted by Steve Making a car live for a long time comes down to a few things, proper maintence, not beating the snot out of it at every opportunity and the tune itself. A bad tune can kill the most badass super built racecar motors just as easily as a stock motor. A rough driver can also cause alot of damage with constant abuse. When talking about stress on engine/drivetrain components and which type of boost is the best for it, there is no doubt what so ever that turbos are best way to go. It's the most efficient setup and least stressful because it's making power on already spent energy, there is no belts creating parasitic load etc. Roots style blowers and centri blowers are stressful on a motor putting a lot of heat into a motor, a blower that takes power from the motor in order to turn it to make boost and also puts a lot of stress on the front of the crank pulling on it all the time. The smaller the pulley, the tighter the belt it requires therefor putting even more stress on the crank. Example, my buddy Jeremy runs a 3.4 Whipple on his Cobra with a fully built motor including a forged crank and still managed to snap off the crank snout with the balancer still attached right off the front of the block. So, depending on what set up you are running, a stock 5.0 crank is no match for a big roots style blower if you are going to beat on it all the time and hopefully you don't trash the block in the process. Turbos have none of those issues. It makes power from already used energy, no belts stealing power from the motor. Does not shock the motor/drivetrain as violently as blowers because the power comes in more linear rather than when you downshift a blower car and BOOM, it hits hard pulling on the rotating assembly instantly. Over time, it causes quite abit of stress and damage even to the most civlized drivers. Yes, you can make a car live a long time, but it's all in how you treat it. Which is why you hear so many varying stories about a car breaking at 550rw or 750rw. Chances are those drivers treat their cars very differently or one had a better tune than the other.

Alot of good information the thing that has me worried is a few guys say "turbos eat clutches" and "turbo cars are always broke for tuning issues." I'd like to do a turbo set the tune and go. Just worried once I make the FI jump ill just be poring money into a turbo car to keep it going faithfully.

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by KnightRider5.0 Alot of good information the thing that has me worried is a few guys say "turbos eat clutches" and "turbo cars are always broke for tuning issues." I'd like to do a turbo set the tune and go. Just worried once I make the FI jump ill just be poring money into a turbo car to keep it going faithfully.

Turbo cars tend to be broke more often for some people because they are very easy to get greedy with. More power is as simple as a button push away. Also, the people "eating clutches" are usually brake boosting the shit out of them which yes, will eat clutches when you are brake boosting a car at 50-60mph at 15-20psi instantly putting 600-700ft lbs of torque into the clutch. DUH. lol. But if you drive it like a quasi-normal person it will last just as long as any other application. Again, it's in how you treat it.

With a blower car it's abit harder to get greedy having to take the belt off, switch pulleys, change the tune etc.

Turbo cars are also very, very addicting because of the power they make. The torque is usually very close to the HP numbers in a street car application.

With a roots style blower (whipple, kennebell, tvs, maggie etc) it's instant boost/torque, it makes its power and levels off on a nice flat curve. So when you get there it pulls hard at first, then kinda feels like it stops pulling.

A Centri blower (Vortech, Paxton or Procharger) it makes less torque and builds boost with RPM making better peak power, but less torque.

A turbo makes massive torque instantly and feels like it will never stop pulling. Getting the right setup is crucial for depending on how you plan to use it. (Spool time, bigger, smaller etc) A good, quality kit isn't going to be cheap, but you get what you pay for especially when it comes to turbo kits.

[txcharlie]

My car runs a TVS2300 and puts out 673/617 at the wheels. I agree with most of the comments, but will add one thought.....Don't skimp on the fuel upgrades. A lack of fuel can cause your boosted engine to give up the ghost. I started with 71lb. injectors and a BAP. I just ordered the JPC return fuel system to make sure I have plenty of fuel for any boost level. You will need fuel upgrades if you use E85 as the volume of fuel used is higher than petro.
I've been running the TVS for almost a year with no issues. MT-82, stock clutch, DS and street tires. The moment you bolt on drag radials or slicks, the game changes and your likelihood of breaking stuff goes way up.
There is no such thing as a budget build whether using a turbo, roots, or centrifugal. One upgrade always requires another and another and so on. Just be prepared to spend way more than you planned.
I choose the TVS for it's simplicity, reliability and they seem to make more torque than the KB or centrifugal.
Good luck in your build!!