Z/28

[re-rx7]

Originally Posted by Dominic Toretto I never claimed the Z/28 was the baddest car ever. I just posted this thread for people interested in the car. That was it. I'm a car enthusiast and like several types of cars, not just Fords. Plenty of people measure performance based on track times. If the Mustang went around a track faster than a Camaro, how many people here would have bashed the car? -Alex

How many people here would be interested in that car? NOne would have bashed and none are bashing the car. We are just saying for the money there are better options as far as power and speed are concerned. Like I said earlier GM owes the Taxpayer a ton of money and they are making niche cars. Why?

Originally Posted by Dominic Toretto Were you expecting them to beat the car using less power, technology from the 90s and winter tires? -Alex

The fact they had to use 305mm tires, a 7.0 liter engine and alot of other stuff speaks highyy of the boss to me.

[saunupe1911]

Originally Posted by re-rx7 How many people here would be interested in that car? NOne would have bashed and none are bashing the car. We are just saying for the money there are better options as far as power and speed are concerned. Like I said earlier GM owes the Taxpayer a ton of money and they are making niche cars. Why? The fact they had to use 305mm tires, a 7.0 liter engine and alot of other stuff speaks highyy of the boss to me.

I like the niche car thing because its pushing the entire industry.

I totally agree with the second comment. 305 all 4 corner, LS7, stripped down....I have seen all this before! It's nice performance car, but it's not impressive at all!!!

Now take the Boss LS with all the creature comforts, looks, exclusivity, and performance...that's impressive. And keep in mind that these LS owners will have been enjoying their car and bragging rights for 3 yrs come March 2014 (Z/28 expected shipments). And they are gearing up for the next gen Mustang in less 10 months from the Z/28 release.

[Dominic Toretto]

Originally Posted by re-rx7 The fact they had to use 305mm tires, a 7.0 liter engine and alot of other stuff speaks highyy of the boss to me.

Who said they had to use an LS7, carbon brakes, or anything else to beat a Boss? If anything, it sounds like they wanted the car to humiliate a Boss. Like the Chief Engineer in the video said, they are aiming higher than a Mustang based on the list of cars he said he wants the Z28 to be mentioned with. And the fact that they are using top end Corvette materials just confirms it.

-Alex

[Dominic Toretto]

Originally Posted by saunupe1911 Now take the Boss LS with all the creature comforts, looks, exclusivity, and performance...that's impressive.

ROFL. Okay so the Z/28 can be had with the same creature comforts as a Boss, looks are subjective, going to also be exclusive and the performance kills a Boss 302 and that is NOT impressive!?

So exact same criteria but it's not impressive lol. You're sounding extremely hypocritical now. If you just don't like the Camaro, I would accept that answer. But since both cars have the same stats you like with the Boss, and deem it not impressive is just sounding trolling.

-Alex

[saunupe1911]

Originally Posted by Dominic Toretto ROFL. Okay so the Z/28 can be had with the same creature comforts as a Boss, looks are subjective, going to also be exclusive and the performance kills a Boss 302 and that is NOT impressive!? So exact same criteria but it's not impressive lol. You're sounding extremely hypocritical now. If you just don't like the Camaro, I would accept that answer. But since both cars have the same stats you like with the Boss, and deem it not impressive is just sounding trolling. -Alex

Removal of Sound deadening and Nav are some nice features that a ton of people care about, which is why thousands of buyers chose a M3 or C63 at this price level.

Read my earlier posts. It's not impressive because this level of performance is seen in the Continental Tire race series from the Camaro....and the Mustang too. I already knew what it can do! They have had the LS7 since 2006! And it took GM 3 yrs to finally catch up. None of that is impressive, period!!! I'm glad they finally caught the hell up! Stop implying what I'm saying and read exactly what I typed.

[Dominic Toretto]

Originally Posted by saunupe1911 Removal of Sound deadening and Nav are some nice features that a ton of people care about, which is why thousands of buyers chose a M3 or C63 at this price level. Read my earlier posts. It's not impressive because this level of performance is seen in the Continental Tire race series from the Camaro....and the Mustang too. I already knew what it can do! They have had the LS7 since 2006! And it took GM 3 yrs to finally catch up. None of that is impressive, period!!! I'm glad they finally caught the hell up! Stop implying what I'm saying and read exactly what I typed.

Do you really think the demographic of people that want to buy this car want sound deadening or navigation?

I did read what you typed. I even quoted it and replied exactly to it. There were no implications.

-Alex

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by Dominic Toretto Were you expecting them to beat the car using less power, technology from the 90s and winter tires? -Alex

Originally Posted by re-rx7 The fact they had to use 305mm tires, a 7.0 liter engine and alot of other stuff speaks highyy of the boss to me.

What re-rv7 said, exactly.

Had Ford spent as much time and development on the Boss on top of the GT as GM did solely on the Z/28 over the SS, the Boss would most likely be able to hang with it damn near to the millisecond. I did read somewhere that GM originally planned to release the Z/28 in 2011, but unforeseen circumstances apparantly came about. Even then, the Z/28 uses an already in production engine, an already in production transmission, and already in production magnetic ride IRS, and new fancy R compound tires, which aren't street legal. So it's not like GM custom built this car, from the design board forward, specifically to race and beat the Boss. I think a lot of people see it as a built from scratch car, with everything made for the car, when it's not.

[saunupe1911]

Originally Posted by Dominic Toretto Do you really think the demographic of people that want to buy this car want sound deadening or navigation? I did read what you typed. I even quoted it and replied exactly to it. There were no implications. -Alex

And I asked that question on MotorTrend. Who is the demographic? GM has never announced it. It's a tweener. There is no clear cut demographic. We can only go by performance spec and price point. Talk to a Porsche, M3, C63, Vette owner with magnetic shocks, or even an SL owner. Simple comfort like sound deadening means a lot to them. Remember that individuals that can afford a $60k car usually aren't young. They are older guys. A little comfort matters.

[Dominic Toretto]

Originally Posted by DirtyD Even then, the Z/28 uses an already in production engine, an already in production transmission, and already in production magnetic ride IRS, and new fancy R compound tires, which aren't street legal. So it's not like GM custom built this car, from the design board forward, specifically to race and beat the Boss. I think a lot of people see it as a built from scratch car, with everything made for the car, when it's not.

Very fair argument Derek. That is a plus to the Boss 302, everything was built specifically for that car. The Z/28 does use leftover ZO6 and ZR1 parts. I think the only new parts are the aero.

-Alex

[Dominic Toretto]

Originally Posted by saunupe1911 And I asked that question on MotorTrend. Who is the demographic? GM has never announced it. It's a tweener. There is no clear cut demographic. We can only go by performance spec and price point. Talk to a Porsche, M3, C63, Vette owner with magnetic shocks, or even an SL owner. Simple comfort like sound deadening means a lot to them. Remember that individuals that can afford a $60k car aren't young. They are older guys. A little comfort matters.

Interesting you bring that up. Being a Corvette owner for several years, I was disappointed that they had to cater to all the people whining about comfort this and seats that. Made the weight of the car increase, then people complained about the weight.

To me there are two different Corvette buyers. People that like to buy boutique cars, and actual car enthusiasts. Everyone that loved the performance, only complained about the seats. Everything else was neglible. But of course the enthusiasts will always be far outnumbered by the majority of people that simply buy/lease cars.

Oh and there were several threads started about young guys(25-40year olds) ordering C7s. So young people can absoutely afford a $60. Hell, there's a member of this board that posted about maybe buying a GTR which is a lot more expensive.

I think the way the market is shifting, is that across the board, people want cars to be more of a gadget to play with instead of drive. Performance is so close at the top echelon of cars, that the real differences come from brand loyalty or gimmicks. It's no secret that Chevrolet wanted the Corvette to appeal to a younger crowd and they achieved that with sacrificing performance. The C7 could have been faster but adding over 100lbs of crap most people won't use hurt what could have been.

-Alex

[saunupe1911]

Well maybe we'll see more of these weight reduced track versions. The best thing about the Camaro at this point is they offer one for every type of driver/person at numerous price points. Now that's impressive!

[DirtyD]

That's just the way I see it, as unbiased as I can. You can kind of argue that same point for the Boss, but not as heavily and holding of an argument, Since Ford took what they had already done with the GT and expanded on it.

But I will say that I don't think GM can have enough damn models of the Camaro out! Holy shit there are so many!

Base, RS, SS, 1LE, ZL1, Z/28

Might as well make the Camaro it's own damn brand name as it has enough models to support a whole dealership.

[Dominic Toretto]

Originally Posted by DirtyD Since Ford took what they had already done with the GT and expanded on it. But I will say that I don't think GM can have enough damn models of the Camaro out! Holy shit there are so many! Base, RS, SS, 1LE, ZL1, Z/28 Might as well make the Camaro it's own damn brand name as it has enough models to support a whole dealership.

Perhaps you can educate me since I don't know any history on Mustangs but, I would assume the original Boss 302 was the same concept on the current model. Just a more track-oriented version of a GT. Educate me if I am wrong

Chevy does have too many damn models of that and the Corvette. It's like buying a 911. I miss the days when you either wanted the car or you didn't.

-Alex

[Dominic Toretto]

Originally Posted by saunupe1911 Well maybe we'll see more of these weight reduced track versions. The best thing about the Camaro at this point is they offer one for every type of driver/person at numerous price points. Now that's impressive!

I personally prefer the Viper's method. You get one car, or you get a better version. You either want the car or you don't lol.

-Alex

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by Dominic Toretto Perhaps you can educate me since I don't know any history on Mustangs but, I would assume the original Boss 302 was the same concept on the current model. Just a more track-oriented version of a GT. Educate me if I am wrong Chevy does have too many damn models of that and the Corvette. It's like buying a 911. I miss the days when you either wanted the car or you didn't. -Alex

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_302_Mustang