What should I do? K&N CAI vs. Stock Box & Others

[DirtyD]

First, I don't want this to turn into the classic debate thread about whether or not a CAI is worth it. Please don't post smart responses about it if that's all you are going to contribute.

Some backstory:
I purchased a K&N 63 series intake back in January. I had a K&N intake on my old F150 that seemed to be a decent pickup over the stock intake on the V6 it had. I figured that since K&N tends to do their homework, this CAI should be a decent upgrade over the stock box (yes I konw the stock box is a great design too).

With that being said, I installed the intake and have been enjoying it. I picked up a tune from the guys over at JPC Racing while using this intake, and the tune definitely helped. However I was a little niave about the intake until the other day. I noticed that at the area around the MAF necks down from the rest of the tube diameter as shown in the picture below. This really disappointed me, as I now understood why this was a "tune free" CAI.



Last night I Oxford14Stang (Jay/Jalal), who basically has the same mods (2013, 3.55s, Magnaflow Competition ABs, Steeda 101mm CAI, Bama tune, 235/50/18 stock wheels) as my car (2013, 3.55s, K&N CAI, GT500 ABs, JPC tune, 255/40/19 & 275/40/19 Brembos). He took almost every race by about 1/2-3/4 of a car over me, and was shift a little sooner than I was.

I have complete confidence in my JPC tune over the Bama tune, so it came down to the intake basically. I have the feeling that the fact this is a "tune free" CAI is really hurting the potential of the car, even though it has been tuned for this intake. I can now see why not many people are running it.

So...with all of that now said, I want to ask opinions, from my fellow '11-'14 owners, as well as any of the tuning gurus here, what your opinions are on where to proceed from here.

I have contemplated going back to the stock box, either temporarily, or permanently (until I go PD blower in the future). I am also thinking of getting a better, "tune required" CAI such as Steeda, JLT, etc. I know those CAIs perform. However, I have reserves about the open air filters in these cars:

1) We know about this Texas summer heat...
2) combine that with an open element filter under the closed hood of a engine running around 180°-200° WITHOUT the aid of the ambient air temp of 100°+, IATs are a nightmare in slow moving traffic.
3) I trimmed my hood carpet around the vents, and don't want to worry about problems with water leaking onto the filter through the hood vents.

I wouldn't mind getting an open element CAI as long as I could gaurantee the filter is completely, or almost completely, sealed from the heat of the engine bay, still utilizes the ram air inlet from the grill, and I can find a way to prevent possible water damage...

What do you guys think I should do as far as where to go from here?

[Grandpa]

I think the engineer in you knows the answer to this question but the car guy in you is still wrestling with the fact you bought something that didn't work.

To me, it's pretty straight forward. Any performance part that is "no tune" required isn't going to be worth the money because obviously it doesn't change from near factory settings/specs. Those no tune required CAI's are more for asthetics rather than performance.

Personally, I've chosen to stay with the stock box until I go boosted since the kit will come with a CAI. No sense in spending the money two or three times.

I wish it were cooler so we could race to see if that CAI helped you at all versus my stock box.

[re-rx7]

Don't count out the bama tunestjey aren't horrible. As for me I have the jlt intake and compared to the K&N it's huge. I wish I could get the jlt with the box like the K&N though.

[JDBishopArts]

I personally think you're over-thinking it. That being said, the ideal CAI has no changes in diameter from filter to TB. But that could make no difference whatsoever if K&N has done some R&D and their design helps vortices the air so it runs smoother into the engine. Either way I would put money that the differences are negligible. As you could see with him winning by half a car. That's almost no difference. Half a car could have been anything. Gears, the difference in the 19"s and 18"s, IAT's, or just the mood both of your cars were in.

The more air in the more air out = more power....in a round about way. A bigger CAI will allow more air to come in. How much air? Probably not that much. If you are really wanted to pull what you can out of your car get a bigger CAI. But if you're that concerned with the diameter of your intake and blah blah blah to account for the more air in, you need more air out and an O/R mid pipe would really wake it up.

Tunes on N/A basic bolt on cars are simple. No super witchcraft needed there. Some guys might be able to pull a little more HP here or there but at the end with the same mods, any decent tune will be very close to another.

I personally like JLT. I've had them on all my cars. They are built very well, look great and I have always seen the gains they promise. I'd be very comfortable with a Steeda and a couple other brands but at the end of the day it goes back to what your first sentence says. The stock box on these cars are super efficient. Ford has really done their homework there. Even the TVS Roush kit uses something almost identical to the stock box design. You aren't getting the HP with the CAI. You are getting it in the tune. You MIGHT get 10hp on an N/A car with a bigger CAI over the stock box.

I'll try to sum it up. Get what you want. Buy a good/proven brand. Get the one you like to look at. Get one of the CAI's that require a tune. There is a reason it needs a tune. More air. More air = good (in most cases). Get it retuned. Locally. Not email tune. Be happy. Enjoy your car and don't worry about if you're really pulling all the power out that you can. At the end of the day it's probably 10hp on these cars and that's not worth the headache.

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by SlowGreyGT I think the engineer in you knows the answer to this question but the car guy in you is still wrestling with the fact you bought something that didn't work. To me, it's pretty straight forward. Any performance part that is "no tune" required isn't going to be worth the money because obviously it doesn't change from near factory settings/specs. Those no tune required CAI's are more for asthetics rather than performance. Personally, I've chosen to stay with the stock box until I go boosted since the kit will come with a CAI. No sense in spending the money two or three times. I wish it were cooler so we could race to see if that CAI helped you at all versus my stock box.

Yeah, it definitely is hard. Especially since I spent that money. LOL

At this point, I don't mind selling it if the stock box will be an improvement. BUT if I can afford a used JLT/Steeda/etc. from selling the K&N, I would definitely go that route. My goal right now is to get a legit, 400 rwhp from this car, in SAE form. I know the whole ordeal about dyno numbers, but I want it to be a [hopeful] consistent 400 rwhp no matter what. Perfect air, dialed in dyno, etc.

Originally Posted by re-rx7 Don't count out the bama tunestjey aren't horrible. As for me I have the jlt intake and compared to the K&N it's huge. I wish I could get the jlt with the box like the K&N though.

I wish that more people would do an enclosed element CAI. I know on boosted applications it's a different story since they need much more air, and an open filter allows that, but I would gladly pay a little more for an enclosed CAI for a N/A car.

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by JDBishopArts Be happy. Enjoy your car and don't worry about if you're really pulling all the power out that you can. At the end of the day it's probably 10hp on these cars and that's not worth the headache.

Spot on.

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by JDBishopArts I personally think you're over-thinking it. That being said, the ideal CAI has no changes in diameter from filter to TB. But that could make no difference whatsoever if K&N has done some R&D and their design helps vortices the air so it runs smoother into the engine. Either way I would put money that the differences are negligible. As you could see with him winning by half a car. That's almost no difference. Half a car could have been anything. Gears, the difference in the 19"s and 18"s, IAT's, or just the mood both of your cars were in. The more air in the more air out = more power....in a round about way. A bigger CAI will allow more air to come in. How much air? Probably not that much. If you are really wanted to pull what you can out of your car get a bigger CAI. But if you're that concerned with the diameter of your intake and blah blah blah to account for the more air in, you need more air out and an O/R mid pipe would really wake it up. Tunes on N/A basic bolt on cars are simple. No super witchcraft needed there. Some guys might be able to pull a little more HP here or there but at the end with the same mods, any decent tune will be very close to another. I personally like JLT. I've had them on all my cars. They are built very well, look great and I have always seen the gains they promise. I'd be very comfortable with a Steeda and a couple other brands but at the end of the day it goes back to what your first sentence says. The stock box on these cars are super efficient. Ford has really done their homework there. Even the TVS Roush kit uses something almost identical to the stock box design. You aren't getting the HP with the CAI. You are getting it in the tune. You MIGHT get 10hp on an N/A car with a bigger CAI over the stock box. I'll try to sum it up. Get what you want. Buy a good/proven brand. Get the one you like to look at. Get one of the CAI's that require a tune. There is a reason it needs a tune. More air. More air = good (in most cases). Get it retuned. Locally. Not email tune. Be happy. Enjoy your car and don't worry about if you're really pulling all the power out that you can. At the end of the day it's probably 10hp on these cars and that's not worth the headache.

I can agree with you completely. Like I said in the above post to Steve, I just want to get a legit 400 rwhp out of the car before I stop for awhile. And I'm sure a larger CAI would definitely get me there over stock or the K&N.

As for the tuning, I know having it done locally is ideal. However, since I have already paid and currently using a JPC tune, it's easier, and cheaper, at the moment for me to just get retuned from them over going with Kevin, TS, or another where I would have to shell out more money, only to then have a useless tune from JPC. JPC, AED, and Lund have proven to be the best email tunes out there compared to even local dyno tuning. Dale's car hung with Nic, which isn't too shabby of a claim for AED. So if I can save a couple hundred dollars when I get retuned for everything on my car, I will.

I will definitely be getting with Kevin when it comes time to switch to E85 on my car, because that will be a whole new tune setup.

[JDBishopArts]

If you want to hit 400hp. Steeda/JLT/C&L tune required CAI, O/R mid, axleback and good tune should get you there.

[Grandpa]

I have a Lethal H pipe, GT500's and a TS tune making 416rw on the stock box.

[ochoblanco]

I love the Airraid on my 12...has an insert that allows you to run "untuned" or remove the insert and get some more power with an aftermarket tune. The best mod on the market hands down is the mod between the steering wheel and the drivers seat.

Easiest way to 400+ whp: offroad mid, Lund or comparable tune, CAI (if you want), alum DS, and a Boss mani if you want to spin it past 7400

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by SlowGreyGT I have a Lethal H pipe, GT500's and a TS tune making 416rw on the stock box.

Originally Posted by ochoblanco I love the Airraid on my 12...has an insert that allows you to run "untuned" or remove the insert and get some more power with an aftermarket tune. The best mod on the market hands down is the mod between the steering wheel and the drivers seat. Easiest way to 400+ whp: offroad mid, Lund or comparable tune, CAI (if you want), alum DS, and a Boss mani if you want to spin it past 7400

Yeah, I know the mods I will need to get there, but I want to make sure I have everything to best ensure I do get there.

Also, the Boss IM is not in my plans. Not a fan of the low end TQ loss, and since I will be going with a PD blower in the future, no reason to even install it now.

[ochoblanco]

Originally Posted by DirtyD Yeah, I know the mods I will need to get there, but I want to make sure I have everything to best ensure I do get there. Also, the Boss IM is not in my plans. Not a fan of the low end TQ loss, and since I will be going with a PD blower in the future, no reason to even install it now.

Personally I think you are over thinking it. If I were to go with a closed element CAI, I would keep the stock Boss box...but thats just me. Maybe do a dyno day in the near future and have a buddy with an open element CAI swap with you between runs. I am sure your tune can be adjusted for the other CAI with ease. At least you could see the difference (in cooler weather) btw your closed K&N and an Airraid/JLT/C&N/etc.

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by ochoblanco Personally I think you are over thinking it. If I were to go with a closed element CAI, I would keep the stock Boss box...but thats just me. Maybe do a dyno day in the near future and have a buddy with an open element CAI swap with you between runs. I am sure your tune can be adjusted for the other CAI with ease. At least you could see the difference (in cooler weather) btw your closed K&N and an Airraid/JLT/C&N/etc.

I would love to do that, but I would have to get a decent deal on some dyno time at a shop to do so, that way I would have time to swap intakes and tunes between each run. A dyno day is too fast paced to do that.

Also, I'm an engineer. Over thinking is under thinking. Haha

[Dan12GT]

This is why I love my Airaid. I can go either way with it. I have the "no tune" model but its the same thing as the "tune required". I just have to take out the insert when I tune.

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by DirtyD Yeah, I know the mods I will need to get there, but I want to make sure I have everything to best ensure I do get there. Also, the Boss IM is not in my plans. Not a fan of the low end TQ loss, and since I will be going with a PD blower in the future, no reason to even install it now.

I agree with you completely. I'm not a fan of the Boss intakes torque loss at all. With my style of driving I really want to keep as much torque as possible. I really enjoyed driving my ported Cobra with the instant torque with the short little blasts around town. With my 93 Cobra Vortech setup, while it was fun to drive still, I wasn't able to take full advantage having to really rev the motor to make the power as often as I would have liked to around town.