dfw

**J.Shoot** · 07-24-2013, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Rebelracer568

J.shoot. i come to san angelo once or twice a month and been wanting to check out that track. Maybe we can meet up there one day. Im def no match for you car but wouldnt mind the fun.

Holler when you come my way, would definitely try to meet up.

J.Shoot

**J.Shoot** · 07-24-2013, 07:26 AM

Just to shed some more light.
We got the Boss in October of 2013, I researched every possible power adder for months. I also called every shop I could find in Texas. Alot of research went into my decision of what to do to the car.
One of the main goals was to keep the car very streetable and where it would run on 93 octane fuel. My wife and I love driving the car.
I talked to Clint several times before we even committed to them to mod our Boss. (I'm sure he thought I was just another tire kicker, at first).
Well, after we got the mods done I got curious of what the car would run. You know what happens next.... It became an addiction, I became fixated on beating a couple of cars and a number that I wanted to get my car down to. That's why we went the direction we did. I'm sure had I told Clint up front that it was going to be a track car we would have looked at other options that might have been more suitable.
Me personally, I like the procharger, the car drives and handles great, I like the power curve and how it comes on. We have made several trips from Abilene to McKinney (250 miles approx) and it's a blast.....
Anyway, didn't mean to get off topic, just wanted to make it clear why we went the direction we did. And I'm sure the car will run better once the temps cool down.....
But by the time it cools down archery season will be here so the car will probably feel neglected for awhile..... lol.

J.Shoot

**Rebelracer568** · 07-24-2013, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by J.Shoot

Holler when you come my way, would definitely try to meet up.

J.Shoot

Ill let you know, im for sure coming back august 10th back to san angelo for the weekend and labor day weekend

**Doug1227** · 07-24-2013, 04:08 PM

I've never heard someone claim that a centri was at a disadvantage to a PD due to IAT2's! Usually I hear the OPPOSITE!

**Yagermeister** · 07-24-2013, 04:29 PM

Ditto Doug...ditto

re-rx7 · 07-24-2013, 07:45 PM

My head was in my ass lol. Duh.

**Doug1227** · 07-24-2013, 09:08 PM

YES, a centri isn't getting any cooling effect when not moving, but it's also not generating any real heat like a PD. Granted that the centri isn't cooling anything in the lanes, but neither is the PD. Fluid is circulating, but there's no air movement across the heat exchanger, so the fluid just gets hotter and hotter (heat soak). Heat soak is going to be much more prominent on a PD car than a centri. At least on the centri it starts cooling as you go down the track and you're essentially starting with ambient. On a PD, you're circulating hot ass water as you go down the track! LOL! I've had both and I think a PD makes a LOT more heat, both on the street and the track.

Edit: Obviously, a PD with an A/W with fans, huge reservoir, bag of ice, etc. will cool better, but that's not what ANY of them come with from the manufacturers, so that's a moot point. I'm talking about how they come in the kits.

**TrueStreetMotorSports.com** · 07-25-2013, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Doug1227

At least on the centri it starts cooling as you go down the track and you're essentially starting with ambient.

B]

Not correct, when the pass/race starts you will start to get fresh air across the intercooler but you are in boost heat is even greater from that point on. There is no intercooler, watercooler on the market that will cool off to ambient temps once boost starts. Once in boost Intake air temps will continue to heat up until there is no boost present and air flow is run across the intercooler water or air to air for a giving amount of time.

**KungFuHamster** · 07-25-2013, 10:15 AM

my vortech car ET'ed and MPH'ed the same pass after pass with minimal cool down and no intercooler (on a 2V car 10 years ago). thats centrifugal efficiency.

so if the A/W is so much more efficient, then why do all the factory PD blower cars heat soak so much? the water is still circulating. but once the water heats up, then it can't absorb anymore heat. its the same as the A/A car sitting there with no air flowing over it. I watched a Cadillac CTS-V lose .4 and 7 mph due to heat soak on his 2nd pass. The car was down on power the whole time we were at the track due to heat soak. We all know this...terminators, lightnings, ZL1, etc.

The centrifugals are the more efficient blowers, and while the twin screws are more efficient than the roots and TVS blowers, they still generate more heat per lb of boost. it's always been that way.

**Doug1227** · 07-26-2013, 11:00 AM

Clint, what's your take on A/A vs. A/W as they come from the supercharger vendors? As they come in the kits?

**TrueStreetMotorSports.com** · 07-26-2013, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Doug1227

Clint, what's your take on A/A vs. A/W as they come from the supercharger vendors? As they come in the kits?

They both have there plus and minus, But Im a big fan of the Air to air of the prochargers, IAT are at ambient when driving anything over 25-30mph (no boost)

The air to water tend to run a little warmer but not much with water taking more time to remove heat once hot. Both systems are great in the own right.

the only reason for my earlier post was for testing we have done. I was not posting a Kenne Bell vs Procharger thread. Just how in extreme heat the air to air preforms poorly when run at the track, driving through staging lanes, waiting, staging, burnout, ect. No air flow during this time means no cooling equals high IAT's.

Think of it this way, The blower is like a hair dryer. They blow HOT HOT air, you take a aluminum box and stick the hair dryer in it your temps are going to rise. Basically with a air to air this is what is happening when no air flow is present.

So with a air to water intercooler. lets say we have water running in front of the hair drier before the air can get into the box. The water is going to prolong the heat for a short while. the water will also continue to rise but at a slower rate. it will also cool at a slower rate once airflow is present. Both will be hottest by the end of the race.

Here is a air to air without air being present

Here is a air to water, just going to take more time to heat up the water

**JDMLOL** · 07-26-2013, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by TrueStreetMotorSports.com

They both have there plus and minus, But Im a big fan of the Air to air of the prochargers, IAT are at ambient when driving anything over 25-30mph (no boost)

The air to water tend to run a little warmer but not much with water taking more time to remove heat once hot. Both systems are great in the own right.

the only reason for my earlier post was for testing we have done. I was not posting a Kenne Bell vs Procharger thread. Just how in extreme heat the air to air preforms poorly when run at the track, driving through staging lanes, waiting, staging, burnout, ect. No air flow during this time means no cooling equals high IAT's.

Think of it this way, The blower is like a hair dryer. They blow HOT HOT air, you take a aluminum box and stick the hair dryer in it your temps are going to rise. Basically with a air to air this is what is happening when no air flow is present.

So with a air to water intercooler. lets say we have water running in front of the hair drier before the air can get into the box. The water is going to prolong the heat for a short while. the water will also continue to rise but at a slower rate. it will also cool at a slower rate once airflow is present. Both will be hottest by the end of the race...

Great analogy. This may be a stupid question or idea. Do they make air to air with e-fans to move air through them while you're parked, doing burnouts, etc..

**TrueStreetMotorSports.com** · 07-26-2013, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by JDMLOL

Great analogy. This may be a stupid question or idea. Do they make air to air with e-fans to move air through them while you're parked, doing burnouts, etc..

this is a great idea and does work well. But the down side to having fans there is they move air effectively up to 35-45mph, after that they are a restriction and in the way of faster speeds. If the car was going to be a track car this would help on both air to air and air to water.

this also helps a ton!!!

**Toby** · 07-26-2013, 01:21 PM

The advantage of the air to water at the track is the ability to put ice in the reservoir an get the iat below ambient. Air to air you cannot do that without an inter cooler sprayer.

**Doug1227** · 07-26-2013, 02:11 PM

This was kinda my point. An A/W has the ABILITY to cool better if things are modified or improved. The A/W you see on a drag only car looks NOTHING like what's being packaged with most PD supercharger kits. Stock for stock, I don't think there's much difference and I might even give the edge to the A/A. But the A/W has potential to do much better. I'm working on those modifications right now! LOL! I'm not taking any of this as a KB vs Procharger debate. Just sharing notes and a friendly discussion.

Edit: BTW, my intercooler fluid temps were 64* last night when the temps outside were 96* and I wasn't using ice or fans!

Originally Posted by Toby

The advantage of the air to water at the track is the ability to put ice in the reservoir an get the iat below ambient. Air to air you cannot do that without an inter cooler sprayer.