What should I do? K&N CAI vs. Stock Box & Others

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by 03MachMe I ran some great times at Northstar in the mach with just tired exhaust and gears

That was before they changed owners, I'm sure.

[Oxford14Stang]

Originally Posted by downtime! I don't know how to put this, but it takes a solid 20 minutes to "prep" a lane, so no, they don't do it before a "hot" car comes to the line. They might spray a little extra VHT on the line, but if you watch, they do that after so many passes anyway. From the vid you posted, I'm going to say you were on street tires, and spinning on streets is not a matter of track prep, but of driver mod. You think you should be able to launch and keep it pinned like a race car? You modulate the amount of gas pedal to accommodate your current level of traction. If you're spinning, you feather the gas until it stops, and then get back into it, it's called "pedaling". And for the record, nothing, and I mean nothing, screws up a well prepped track like someone spinning their street tires half way down the track.

I'm not going to have a pissing contest with you. And you're correct, I was on street tires, matter of fact the stock shitty 235/55/18s that come on the car. As far as driver mod goes and launching the car, I was launching the car at roughly 2,000 rpms in the video you can see it hooked just fine in first gear. I didn't have problems until 2nd gear(which I let off and got back on) and than third gear(which IMO was bullshit) regardless of what kind of tires I'm on. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a track suppose to have more grip than the streets? That's what I was always told. I'm not going to lie to you, I'm a newbie when it comes to the track, or track racing. I've always done street racing, and I can tell you, I broke loose at 70mph on the track, I'd be damned if I break loose and go sideways on the streets like that. I'm also well aware of the term "pedaling" my old man always referred to it as "feathering" and I understand and know that street tires screw up a so called well prepped track. But at the time I couldn't and sometimes people cant afford better tires. I'm ordering some 275s tomorrow they'll still be street tires but I have to work with what I got. And I don't want to sound like a dick or anything, and I'm not trying to start anything with you but everyone makes a big deal about hwy rolls or street racing but bitch when we actually go to the track with our street tires. Seems like it's a lose/lose situation. I've ran good times at the track, just so happens it's never happened again. I've ran a best of a 8.33 and ran consistent 8.4-8.6 all night long with the same setup I have now and same stock tires.

[downtime!]

It's not a pissing contest, it's supposed to inspire you to learn what you're doing wrong and make it better.

No, street tires are not supposed to hook better at the track than on the street. The track is designed for slicks or dr's. It's a smooth surface (relatively speaking) that is covered with the sticky compound of the tracks choice, and rubber laid down from all the previous runs. Streets, on the other hand, are full of small bumps (pebbles and what not) pressed into the asphalt, or grooves and texture lines in the concrete, and that gives the tread on your tires something to grab on to.

Being well aware of a term, and knowing how to do it, are two totally different things. Pedaling is extremely hard to learn to do correctly, because your natural instinct when the tires start to slip is to let off the gas completely and slow down. I learned how to do it because back in the day, DR's did not exist. All we had was slicks or streets. Running on the slicks back then was like strapping a set of skates on a pig. Cars would squirm on the launch, and then get loose on the big end and skate all over the track. Going really fast back then meant that more than likely, you crossed the stripe looking out the passenger window. Not fun, but you learn to compensate for it.

Being able to afford better tires has nothing to do with anything I'm talking about here. Sure, it's easy to slap a set of DR's on your car and go fast. But it can be done without them. It's not easy, and it requires a good deal of patience and a lot of trips to the track. Wider street tires will help. It also helps to do some research and get the softest rubber compound street tire you can find. They won't last as long, but they'll be easier to get hooked. Look for something with a rating below 280 if possible. For comparison, NT555's run in the 300 range, and most DR's are in the 100 range.

If you're spinning, doesn't matter what gear you're in, you're trying to get more power to the track than your traction will allow. Simple, right? Ever heard the old saying slow down to go faster? Use less gas pedal, modulate the brake pedal at the same time (this is an old trick to help with wheel spin), feather out, ease it back in, shift earlier, there are literally tons of things to do to help control spin. You can air down street tires a little bit, but you have to be careful to not go so low that you run the risk of breaking the bead seal. I've never ran street tires lower than 20 psi.

I'd actually rather you be at the track than racing on the streets. I did it for years, and I try not to be too hypocritical about that, but the simple facts are that these days, there are just more people on the roads at any given time, so the chances of a "bad" encounter and simply higher. The penalties for street racing are also much more severe than they used to be. When I was your age, "street racing" wasn't even an offense. It was called Exhibition of Acceleration, and it was a $50 fine. So please, take it to the track. Just take some time to really learn your car. Keep records, get a notebook and write down everything about the runs. Time of day, temperature, humidity, tire pressure, launch rpm, shock settings, ET, MPH, etc. It's all important. This will give you a baseline for setting the car up when you get to the track. You can look back through your notes, and see that on such and such day, the weather was about the same as it is now, and this is what worked that day. You start there, then make small adjustments to accommodate the track prep that will surely be different from the last time.

It's not hard, it just takes a little time and a little dedication. And, it's actually kind of fun too. You've already ran some pretty good numbers, start following these guidelines and you'll be repeating them no matter what the conditions are.

[46Tbird]

Good posts!

Oxford, in that vid, the biggest thing I see being a problem is how hard the tires were getting shocked during shifts. The stock Pirellis just won't take that when you combine it with all the rubbery goodness of the stock suspension. No amount of track prep will keep that combination of tire, suspension, and driving style planted.

I've seen some mid-11 passes on the stock Pirellis, so it can be done. The trick is keeping the tires planted, so anything that keeps the rear end from moving around is good. Control arms will help and of course so will sticky tires, but smooth clutch engagement seems to be the real trick.

[ochoblanco]

Good information!!! Although I have always been under the impression to never deflate street tires when running them at the track.

[Oxford14Stang]

Downtime, you seem like a knowledgeable man so I don't know what makes you think I haven't tried just about everything. I've tried different launches, 3k, 2500, 2000, idle, have messed with air pressure, regular pressure, 25psi, 20psi, even 17 and 14 once(didn't help lol was desperate), have tried traction control on, off, speed shifting, and granny. I've always feathered it when I had to but in that video it was to the point where I had to let off and focus in saving the car, I've done everything besides write down all my conditions and numbers. I have saved all my slips from every pass. I'm pretty much doing the same thing now as I did when I ran 8.3-8.6 consistently. Just seems the last two times I've gone I've been losing more and more traction, I'm sure my thread depth now may play a factor in that. I've even thrown my keys to rebelracer one night out there when I couldn't seem to run anything else than 8.8s and 8.9s as he pulled up they prepped he had to wait. He took it down the track after that and still ran the same 8.9 I did. Him saying he couldn't get the car to hook. No doubt the stock tires are killing me I know but its not like I haven't tried everything and anything I could think of.

46TBird thank you for your input on it, I know the stock suspension blows on these cars I just got it lowered and plan on buying struts and shocks soon, as well as the rear lca

[DirtyD]

Get a UCA before LCAs, Jay. Those are the wheel hop solvers.

[46Tbird]

At 400hp, just try some good tires. I run consistent 7.9s on an untuned car with Sportlines and 20" Nitto drag radials. I would expect you guys to be in the mid 7s with the tunes and some good grip.

[Oxford14Stang]

Originally Posted by DirtyD Get a UCA before LCAs, Jay. Those are the wheel hop solvers.

I almost never have issues with my car wheel hopping. Have only felt it maybe 3-4 times and was only for a split second.

Originally Posted by 46Tbird At 400hp, just try some good tires. I run consistent 7.9s on an untuned car with Sportlines and 20" Nitto drag radials. I would expect you guys to be in the mid 7s with the tunes and some good grip.

That's impressive man. I'd say your a damn good driver and know your car well. I could see 7.9s out of my car with set of good tires. No doubt.

[re-rx7]

I ran 8 flat on stock 235's at Denton hoppin and skipping with a trap of 91.

[downtime!]

Originally Posted by Oxford14Stang Downtime, you seem like a knowledgeable man so I don't know what makes you think I haven't tried just about everything. I've tried different launches, 3k, 2500, 2000, idle, have messed with air pressure, regular pressure, 25psi, 20psi, even 17 and 14 once(didn't help lol was desperate), have tried traction control on, off, speed shifting, and granny. I've always feathered it when I had to but in that video it was to the point where I had to let off and focus in saving the car, I've done everything besides write down all my conditions and numbers. I have saved all my slips from every pass. I'm pretty much doing the same thing now as I did when I ran 8.3-8.6 consistently. Just seems the last two times I've gone I've been losing more and more traction, I'm sure my thread depth now may play a factor in that. I've even thrown my keys to rebelracer one night out there when I couldn't seem to run anything else than 8.8s and 8.9s as he pulled up they prepped he had to wait. He took it down the track after that and still ran the same 8.9 I did. Him saying he couldn't get the car to hook. No doubt the stock tires are killing me I know but its not like I haven't tried everything and anything I could think of. 46TBird thank you for your input on it, I know the stock suspension blows on these cars I just got it lowered and plan on buying struts and shocks soon, as well as the rear lca

It could be as simple as worn tires. As was mentioned, suspension work is big on these cars, though all I have on mine currently is LCA's. Conventional drag race wisdom says that lowering a car is bad, but there are several cars, like Danny's, that run very strong and consistent using Sportlines. I have the ProKit springs on mine and will likely change them out for the drag launch kit if the new tune is successful.

I wasn't meaning to sound like I was ragging on you either, I just see too many times where someone blames the track and gets frustrated and stops racing. Just trying to throw some ideas out there to give you stuff to try and hopefully keep you motivated. When I get mine back from the shop, maybe we can get together at the track. I'll let you use my DR's and we'll see what that car can do!

[Oxford14Stang]

Originally Posted by downtime! It could be as simple as worn tires. As was mentioned, suspension work is big on these cars, though all I have on mine currently is LCA's. Conventional drag race wisdom says that lowering a car is bad, but there are several cars, like Danny's, that run very strong and consistent using Sportlines. I have the ProKit springs on mine and will likely change them out for the drag launch kit if the new tune is successful. I wasn't meaning to sound like I was ragging on you either, I just see too many times where someone blames the track and gets frustrated and stops racing. Just trying to throw some ideas out there to give you stuff to try and hopefully keep you motivated. When I get mine back from the shop, maybe we can get together at the track. I'll let you use my DR's and we'll see what that car can do!

No worries man, no offense taken. Would Love to get together at the track someday, maybe soon? Thanks for your info. I'll keep it all in mind.

[thelandshark]

I'm down for joinin that track day I wanna see downtime car run

[Oxford14Stang]

Originally Posted by thelandshark I'm down for joinin that track day I wanna see downtime car run

Yeah would be sweet to watch his car run.


Downtime what shop is your car at now? What's all getting done and when do you expect to get it back?

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by Oxford14Stang Yeah would be sweet to watch his car run. Downtime what shop is your car at now? What's all getting done and when do you expect to get it back?

HPP most likely.