dfw

**JDMLOL** · 11-22-2013, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by DirtyD

No 2 cars are alike. Just because 2 cars have the same commanded values, doesn't mean each one will run exactly like the other.

I would think differences would be very minimal. Besides gear ratios, wheels, trans. Other than tolerances of the parts which I would hope are small, what else could change how the engine responds to a tune?

**DirtyD** · 11-22-2013, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by JDMLOL

I would think differences would be very minimal. Besides gear ratios, wheels, trans. Other than tolerances of the parts which I would hope are small, what else could change how the engine responds to a tune?

That would be something I wouldn't even try to answer. Because I'm not educated enough to answer it. That's just what I've been told by many people when I said the same thing that Alex said. Steve always made sure to correct me on that, so many he can be of more help to answering that question.

**JDMLOL** · 11-22-2013, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by DirtyD

That would be something I wouldn't even try to answer. Because I'm not educated enough to answer it. That's just what I've been told by many people when I said the same thing that Alex said. Steve always made sure to correct me on that, so many he can be of more help to answering that question.

Like Alex said. Every gt gets the same calibration from the factory. If undesirable results coming from generic tunes were that big of an issue they would all get custom tunes. I mean even carburetors had "factory" jet/screw settings for a particular engine. I wonder what Ford's defect rate with their tune is compared to __________ Performance shop's tune?

**Dominic Toretto** · 11-22-2013, 11:47 AM

I'm not discrediting anyone here, I am certainly not a Ford engineer myself. I can, however, see a generic tune based on region. Is it possible that the manufacturers know if certain vehicles will be bought and sold to different climates so they base a minor tune difference on that?

-Alex

**DirtyD** · 11-22-2013, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by JDMLOL

Like Alex said. Every gt gets the same calibration from the factory. If undesirable results coming from generic tunes were that big of an issue they would all get custom tunes. I mean even carburetors had "factory" jet/screw settings for a particular engine. I wonder what Ford's defect rate with their tune is compared to __________ Performance shop's tune?

All the cars are built and toleranced within specs so that the tunes will work fine. When you start modifying the ECU and PCM calibrations, you don't know how close to the edge you are, depending on how your motor sits inside of the tolerance window...especially if you start modifying it.

All I'm saying is that I would rather someone actually take the time to look at, and diagnose my datalogs to see if there are any issues.

Just because the suit fits you, doesn't mean it's the best fit.

**DirtyD** · 11-22-2013, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Dominic Toretto

I'm not discrediting anyone here, I am certainly not a Ford engineer myself. I can, however, see a generic tune based on region. Is it possible that the manufacturers know if certain vehicles will be bought and sold to different climates so they base a minor tune difference on that?

-Alex

Maybe. But I think that would be a lot more of a hassle than just right a tune for all vehicles and just grabbing a ECU and sticking it in there.

**Grandpa** · 11-22-2013, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by DirtyD

No 2 cars are alike. Just because 2 cars have the same commanded tune values, doesn't mean each one will run exactly like the other.

Agreed. You can have two cars with the same exact mods and one will always be faster than the other.

Originally Posted by DirtyD

I would much rather have a tune based off what my car was doing than one that was key punched into a program to spit out PID values to match my mods.

Agreed.

A generic tune will be just that with settings within general area that will slightly gain performance. Typically adding timing/fuel etc. But these new cars are much more progressive and advanced than they used to be having to tune many more factors.

There are only a handful of tuners out there who really know how to tune these cars from scratch and aware of the "fix" for the number eight. That info originally came to a big name tuner from a friend of his who works at Ford making him privvy to the information that other tuners did not have access to explaining why two certain tuners were going faster than everyone else and the rest were blowing #8's.

Originally Posted by blownaltered

In all honesty that is what most tuners do anyways. They do adjust different values when the car is on the dyno but most start by putting your mods in the system to get a baseline.

A majority of "tuners" don't really write tunes from scratch. They do a pull, then even out the graph adding timing/fuel here and there to make it a nice arc rather than looking like a pre-schooler who scribbled it.

A certain cheap ass mail order tuner just has files of cars with X mods, they drop that into a new customers file and adjust it from a "datalog". It's not a custom tune like they think, it's just a cheap, quickly adjusted previous file from another similarly modded car. It's the McDonalds of tuning. lol

There are a few good tuners out there who still write tunes from scratch adjusting every 100rpm rather than graph adjusters who do it every couple of thousand RPM's.

Originally Posted by DirtyD

But they don't leave it at that. They fine tune.

Only a few really fine tune. Others don't take the time and just get them close and depend on the customers butt meter to make them happy. And they usually are because it is faster than what it was before, but is it optimal? Certainly not.

Originally Posted by JDMLOL

I would think differences would be very minimal. Besides gear ratios, wheels, trans. Other than tolerances of the parts which I would hope are small, what else could change how the engine responds to a tune?

There are so many factors with these progressive computers it's ridiculous. Your line of thought would apply to the old carb'd days, but not now.

Originally Posted by DirtyD

That would be something I wouldn't even try to answer. Because I'm not educated enough to answer it. That's just what I've been told by many people when I said the same thing that Alex said. Steve always made sure to correct me on that, so many he can be of more help to answering that question.

LOL, don't take it personally bro. We're all learning here together. I'm just obsessive about researching and learning this stuff. There is a lot of misinformation out there. We have so much access to information out there, but the problem is too many get their information 3rd and 4th hand and take it as gospel.

Read the tuning information out there available to you. Talk to tuners in person. Someone like Kevin is a vast source of information. I'm lucky to have him as a personal friend to learn from. I went to SEMA last year and talked to John Urist for a couple of hours. The level of information you can learn from these guys is astounding.

Originally Posted by JDMLOL

Like Alex said. Every gt gets the same calibration from the factory. If undesirable results coming from generic tunes were that big of an issue they would all get custom tunes. I mean even carburetors had "factory" jet/screw settings for a particular engine. I wonder what Ford's defect rate with their tune is compared to __________ Performance shop's tune?

That is why the systems are constantly recalculating while you are driving and there is a fail safe mode. If it goes beyond the perimeters of the tune, it will shut itself down going into limp mode.

In the days of carb'd cars, they just detonated and ran like shit. lol

Originally Posted by DirtyD

All I'm saying is that I would rather someone actually take the time to look at, and diagnose my datalogs to see if there are any issues.

Just because the suit fits you, doesn't mean it's the best fit.

Well said.

**DirtyD** · 11-22-2013, 12:36 PM

Not taking it personally. I was just saying that you corrected me on that before, and now I agree with you, but I don't have the knowledge to confidently answer the question. I'm over the blowing smoke part. Exactly why I left the Facebook group because of the constant dickery that takes place in there. Just got tired of the bullshit and people acting all macho because they can.

**Grandpa** · 11-22-2013, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by DirtyD

Maybe. But I think that would be a lot more of a hassle than just right a tune for all vehicles and just grabbing a ECU and sticking it in there.

Agreed. It would take way too much time and retooling to make something like that happen. That is why the onboard systems have the ability to adjust themselves with timing etc. It's just not cost effective for the factories to do that especially for Ford that knows it has a HUGE aftermarket support of companies knocking down their doors to do that for them.

So they make an adjustable system that is safe (detuned) leaving the factory for people who don't give a shit about making power, or the owners who put crap 87 gas in it from a no name gas station in south Dallas so that it will still run and they won't be buried in warranty claims cuz they tuned it on the edge for better performance.

Ford cares about making a flexible platform that can be adjusted to all their customer base and demographics. From the teenage girl getting her first car that will treat it like shit, to the hardcore performance guy who beat the ever loving shit out of it. They have packages for everyone but it's still all the base platform so they don't have to retool at the factory to keep costs down.

**BERT** · 11-22-2013, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by slowgreygt

agreed. It would take way too much time and retooling to make something like that happen. That is why the onboard systems have the ability to adjust themselves with timing etc. It's just not cost effective for the factories to do that especially for ford that knows it has a huge aftermarket support of companies knocking down their doors to do that for them.

So they make an adjustable system that is safe (detuned) leaving the factory for people who don't give a shit about making power, or the owners who put crap 87 gas in it from a no name gas station in south dallas so that it will still run and they won't be buried in warranty claims cuz they tuned it on the edge for better performance.

Ford cares about making a flexible platform that can be adjusted to all their customer base and demographics. From the teenage girl getting her first car that will treat it like shit, to the hardcore performance guy who beat the ever loving shit out of it. They have packages for everyone but it's still all the base platform so they don't have to retool at the factory to keep costs down.

watch it!!!!!