Vorshlag 2011 Mustang 5.0 GT - track/autocross/street Project

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by csamsh Do the Evo's know this? Ha.

Yes, and they work it as much as they can. That's one of the reasons they are sort of funky on track. I suspect they could have much more upper end power with much less effort if they wanted it. And I suspect they could be much faster if they would pony up for a real motorsports gearbox, but that's a $10k+ bill just to start.

[2013MustangGT]

@ Jason

Where can I find the rules for tuning for TT. I look and didn't find anything. However, for AI there is a 9.0:1 ratio for Tq.

Thanks,

Jamie

[modernbeat]

Here are the Time Trial rules.

http://www.nasa-tt.com/rules

The TT3/TT2/TT1 rules are supposed to be similar enough to the Super Touring (W2W racing) rules that they cross over. Both Terry and I think they are easier to understand the formula and restrictions. Take a look at the ST rules below, look down the list for Super Touring.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules

[2013MustangGT]

Thanks Jason. However, I can only find HP/weight ratios for both ST and TT nothing about Tq/weight ratios like they have in AI.

[Fair]

Project Update for Feb 6th, 2013: Its been over a month since my last post in this thread but so much has been going on I cannot hope to cover all of it. In the red 2011 Mustang alone we've done a track test/TV shoot at ECR (Dec 28th), rebuilt the front splitter mounts, made an all new exhaust system, ran in the 2014 season opening NASA Texas Time Trial at MSR-Houston (Jan 18-19), then the following weekend we ran the car in SCCA Club Trials at the the Polar Grand Prix race weekend at MSR-Cresson (Jan 25). And the next weekend we drove it out to Cars & Coffee (Feb 1). Somehow this became my largest EVER single forum post, took a week to write, and I had to break into 5 parts due to post length limits (and up to 10 parts on some forums).


Left: The first mock-ups of the 2013 FR-S LSx look good. Right: Cage wrapping up on this C4 Corvette

And that was with just one car of many we are working on... Something has been going on every single weekend since my last post - looks like we won't get a "winter break" from racing this year. I won't go into the Scion FR-S LSx swap we're knee deep into, or the Corvette race car build that consuming lots of time, or the half dozen other cars we've been working on. Or the fact that we just broke a monthly sales record for the 10 year history of the business... in a January (traditionally our slowest month of the year). Everything feels like its going by at 1,000 miles an hour lately.



See, we're not "just a Mustang shop", or "not just a suspension shop" as we work on a lot of BMWs, Subarus (including a '95 Impreza with an '07 STi swap, above left), Miatas (including the LS1 Alpha). And we're doing a lot more than suspensions - like seat and harness installs (above right), chassis work, roll cages and roll bars, brake upgrades, wheel and tire fitments, and more.



But yes, we're knee deep in Mustangs. I just bought another one, the former stage rally SN95 Mustang shown above left. We have some fun ideas about what to do with this car that involve a big motor, rallycross and a lot of hoonage. So I've really got to get rid of one of our two S197 Mustangs, and I've slashed the price on the 2013 Mustang GT to $25K. That's an amount I've had and turned down more than once for this car, but all of the other higher priced offers went "poof" and the buyers flaked out. So if you wanted to see me bleed with this car, mission successful. I don't think it can last long at that price, but I've said that before, too. Check the ad and give me a call if you are interested.



We should have a new 2011-14 5.0L external oil cooler kit available very soon. We developed this on a 2013 Boss302 that was seeing some very high oil temps at the track. We junked the factory Boss/Track Pack "oil heater" system (that uses hot radiator coolant to "cool" the oil) and replaced it with a big Mocal heat exchanger, custom bolt-on mount, BMRS lines, a Canton oil filter sandwich adapter with thermostatic control. This same car has also received a Mishimoto radiator, customized Maximum Motorsports 4-point roll bar, Schroth Profi 2 harnesses with customized anti-sub belts, front brake cooling, a customized set of auxiliary gauges in a Ford Racing 3 gauge pod, and a custom built front tow hook. This Gotta Have It Green Boss is turning into one slick track toy.



So that was some of what's been going on in January - a small slice of the craziness that Vorshlag has become. I've also been looking at larger commercial properties to move the business into, as we've completely run out of room with our company's growth. I hope that by October we will be somewhere new, so I need to finalize the deal on the new place by about June... we looked at 15 properties last Saturday, after Cars & Coffee.

Let's back up and cover the S197 Mustang development for the past 5 weeks....

Track Test & TV Shoot @ ECR, December 28th, 2013

There is a new "car guy" TV show that has been created and been filming in the Dallas area for a few months. This show is supposed to debut in March 2014 (don't know what channel or markets yet) and while I don't know much about the show, I do know a lot of the folks involved. They are all track folks, and we go to a lot of track events so we have run with all of them many times. So when I got a call about being part of a TV shoot for a sketch about a "street car vs. race car" track segment, I was on board in an instant. The only question was... did they consider our Mustang the street car or the race car??



Yep, our big red 3770 pound Pony was going to be the race car. Uh-oh. Sure, while our street legal Mustang can be quick, there are some still "street cars" that would give us fits on track. I've run against some C6 ZR1s and Z06s that were fookin FAST. So I asked what we'd be running against? Turns out it was to be C6 Corvette. Uh-oh, those can be fast. But luckily it wasn't a Z06 and it was "a nearly stock 6-speed manual convertible", whew. But the driver was pretty good and he was going to be running "slicks". The car had a mix of 305 Pirelli P-zero racing slicks up front and 345 Hoosier A6s out back. That could be pretty fast, if the two compounds worked together. Oh well, we would find out later in the day when we did some head-to-head stuff...

320mm Continental Rolex Race Tire vs 315mm Hoosier A6 Track Test

Before the filming began we used much of this day at ECR to test some tires on the Mustang and some shocks we're developing for another chassis.



Some of you that have been following this thread for a while remember the big gaggle of Continental slicks I purchased at the end of last season. Got a bunch of 305/650/18 and 320/650/18 Contis for a good price and we stuck them on our clearance page.

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305/650/18 on 18x11" wheel fits the S197 very well front and rear

These Rolex series Continentals are measured like real racing slicks and are very different tires than the CTSCC Series Contis that are measured like passenger tires, which are very similar to a DOT Hoosier R6. The DOT type tires have a LOT more steel belts in them and tend to weigh a good bit more. The real racing slicks tend to have the spring rate of the tire measured and marked on each carcass.


The same 305/650/18 on an 11" wide wheel (at left) is much more square than when on 10" wheel (at right)

We really don't know much about these Rolex Contis yet. What we have are the "GT-O" compound/series tires, which I have been told were made for the high banks of Daytona and are different both structurally and in compound from the GT-R and other versions that are used on Rolex DP cars. Technically our Mustang is heavier than these tires are designed for, but we don't make a fraction of the downforce of a DP car so it likely all evens out.



These 305 and 320 Contis were such a good deal it was hard to NOT buy them, and we've sold a couple of sets and so far everyone has been happy with them. I wanted to see how they'd fare head-to-head against the A6s, so we mounted a set of 320s to one of our 18x12" Forgestar sets and left some well worn 315 Hoosier A6s on the other set and brought them with us to the track that day.



Amy and I got to ECR at 9:30 am that Saturday right as the film crew guys arrived. As we unloaded the Mustang, Brandon showed up, then Olof and his buddy Steve arrived. Sofi rolled up in her truck towing a trailer with two of her motorcycles, too. So we had a big Vorshlag contingent early on.



We also had some of our testers/customers join us, so we could do some shock testing and car set-up work with them. Mike, Jan and Shannon brought one of their Mustangs and a Miata we had some new prototype Bilstein Motorsports shocks on. This racer family has 5 track cars between them, and we see them at tons of track events every year.



The day started off a little cool (46°F) but quickly warmed into the high 50s then low 60s, with the sun shining bright. I went out at about 10:30 am on the Contis and tried to get them up to temperature, to see how they felt and hopefully get in some lap times. After about 4 hot laps they just were not working, so I came into the hot pits and Olof took tire temps and bled the tires down (We tried from 30-38 psi, with little luck). The hottest we saw the tires get to was 109-110°F, which is not nearly enough heat. So I went back out and tried another 5 laps, grip was terrible, and I couldn't barely run a 2:00 lap. Came in hot and again, still around 110°F on the touch probe pyrometer for the tires. WTF? The A6s would be boiling after a run like that.



I guess the only conclusion we can say is they don't work in 60 degree temperatures with only a handful of laps. It is an endurance tire, but we didn't think they were that hard. I was driving on these like a wild man, trying to scrub them in and build some tire heat, but the Contis just laughed at my attempts at hoonage and stayed dead cold. I was not at all happy with the performance of the Continental GT slicks and could not wait to get them off the car. We punted on the remainder of the test, but I vowed to try them again in the warmer months - maybe then we can get them warm enough to work? The March 29-30 TrackGuys event at TWS is likely where they will get used again. There was zero visible tire wear on the Contis, as you would expect.

Hoosiers On + Filming for the Show



So while Olof and I swapped over to the Hoosier A6 scrubs we brought, the rest of our big group was out tracking their cars or motorcycles; they run the bikes and cars in different run groups every 30 minutes on these Member Days. Mike was pounding miles on the prototype Miata Bilsteins, Jan and Shannon were both having a blast on the MCS equipped Mustang, and Sofi was running both of her bikes.


Left: Olof and Steve assisted with a coolant leak on Mike's Miata. Right: Our Ops Mgr Sofi had fun running her 2 bikes on track

Amy ran a couple of sessions on the Hoosiers, giving rides to folks and ran some 1:59 laps. I then took over and ran a couple of sessions, failing to get a single clear lap. It was a member day so there weren't a lot of cars out there, but there were enough to clog up any given lap, all while we were out there with two cars and a camera car trying to get footage (that ended up being really tough to do). With everything from full on race cars (nearby Pinnacle Motorsports had a few cars out there testing) to very clearly street cars on the track, and lap times from sub 2 minute to 2:30s and beyond, it was impossible to get a single clear lap. But it was fun anyway, and they likely got some footage to use.



We tried some lead-follow stuff where we were supposed to change places (Corvette street car vs Mustang race car) and not lose the camera car, but that didn't work out so well. We needed a much faster camera car. And both of us wanted to occupy the same space on track and both cars had similar acceleration rates, so needless to say there was more than one off that day, heh. Mine was pretty good and I stuffed it off the entry to Turn 6, pretty hard, and dug a trench about 70" wide in the soft dirt. Tore up the splitter mounts and dislodged the lower bumper cover, which kept Olof busy for a bit doing some hasty track-side repairs. He got it put back together well enough that you wouldn't know it was borked know unless you crawled underneath.

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After losing two different camera cars they tried to use, we eventually just had a bunch of POV cameras slapped on both cars and onto a quadracoptor camera rig to shoot some aerial stuff. In the afternoon they wanted to do a 3 lap head-to-head shootout with a side by side green flag start. I will wait and see if this sketch airs on the show, but the other car had its off during this shootout and it was a good session for the Mustang. Here's a tip: fast heating A6s come up to temp and overheat by the time Pirelli slicks get up to temp, which can make for a handling nightmare if you use both tires on the same car.



During the "3 lap challenge" I was really trying to run consistent laps, which isn't something you normally strive for in the "I just need one lap!" berzerk 10/10ths driving I do in Time Attack/Time Trial competition. I was worried that a small driving screw-up might put me on the defensive then I'd never stay ahead. Turns out that wasn't a worry, and I ran fairly consistent if a little conservative laps at 1:57.0, 1:57.1 and a 1:57.4.

Those times were pretty good considering the age of these tires, but a solid 1.5 seconds off my times here in November, when these tires were brand new (it was the same set). And that 1:57.0 lap was a solid 3 seconds faster than I could manage on the 320mm Continental slicks. Again, the GT-O compound isn't their softest and the track needed a lot more heat for these to get up to temperature. So I guess that tire test proved that running the 315mm Hoosier A6 is still a good choice, compared to the GT-O compound Rolex series DP race tires.

We were supposed to do some track side interviews after that portion of filming was done but they had some technical difficulties with the other car and the quadrocoptor (it flew away, right as the filming started). They said the whole day of filming might have to be redone, and later invited us back for a reshoot to be held on New Years Day. Yikes, I didn't plan to be awake that day, since we had a big NYE party planned and knew we'd never get any of the crew to join us that day, so we bowed out. Long story short - we may never see any of this footage and my dreams of being a TV star were dashed, heh. Oh well, it was still a fun day and we got a lot of testing done.


Left: I fit in the Mustang fine, with the Cobra seat lowered down. Right: In the Miata's stock seat, I don't fit so well

I got to drive Mike's 2000 Miata later that afternoon. We shot some video while I drove it on track for about 5 laps, all the while talking to the camera and giving my feedback of the feel of the Bilstein Motorsports shocks we built and then custom valved with Maxyspeed & Co. I was pretty happy with the feel of the car as a whole but I had to re-tune my brain to drive without the aid of ABS! It has been a while since I drove a car with "old school brakes", but I managed some 2:17 laps on some worn out Kumho XS tires and that lopped about 10 seconds a lap off the car's previous lap record with the stock shocks. It rode great, too, so I think we might have a good damper setup.

Mike has since installed an aluminum UltraShield seat (and Vorshlag is now an UltraShield dealer, to go along with Cobra, Corbeau, Sparco and Momo) and Schroth harnesses into the Miata. He says that lowered the seating position about 3 inches, which would have made my head not stick above the roll bar, as shown above. That seat change would have made driving his car not only safer but less tiring. After 5 laps of being thrown around on top of the stock seats and 3-point belts I was ready for my trusty Cobra racing seat again.

More CEL Problems and Traction Control Faults

One thing to mention is that all day the Mustang was fighting me. Amy didn't have a lick of problems, but it seems whenever I drive the TT3 Mustang lately it is throwing Check Engine Lights, laying down under power or resetting the Traction Control. Obviously it is something in my driving style, but as I told Amy, while it seems like I'm whipping this thing like a rented mule, that's producing the faster lap times.

That happened all day on me: with the Continentals it reset the Traction Control into Fault Mode twice; so bad that I had to come in the pits, shut off the motor, and reset the whole sequence while holding the brakes. During one semi-clean A6 equipped lap I was running a high 1:56 predictive and the motor laid down after Turn 11 and I limped across the line to a 1:57.5 lap. Even during the final 3-lap shootout segment it laid down right before the Start/Finish line on the last lap. We noted several CELs for the O2 ("stuck open rich"), and now one for a Cam Sensor, too.

We have been chasing these CEL issues for months, especially at ECR, and I felt like we needed to make some exhaust system changes to try to alleviate this. I had hoped we had the issues fixed after True Street found the Throttle Circuit wiring short and we later replace the throttle body and integrated TPS sensor. Sure, anything under 3/4 tank will fuel starve now, which is not an easy fix, but something else is still borked in the O2 circuit/exhaust system. I felt like it was time to remove the catalysts and see if we had one that was broken and/or plugging up one side of the system.

New Lightweight Exhaust System for TT3 Use

Turns out that was the case, as we did indeed have one broken catalyst matrix when we changed the exhaust two weeks later. Before we attacked the new exhaust the guys fabricated new rear mounts for the splitter, which I bent badly with my off in the soft mud of ECR at the TV shoot. That took a couple of hours, as I had really done a number on them and the old ones had to be junked.



The old exhaust layout (shown above) we've been using on this car for the past 3 years is rather traditional - dual 3" pipes from the ARH 1-7/8" long tubes, ARH cars and X-pipe, and a custom dual 3" over the axle system we built using rear mounted large case mufflers (Flowmaster Series 44) and some tips in the stock location. This system was lighter than most off the shelf systems but still pretty lengthy and had a lot of tubing. It was modified once back in early 2012, but has remained untouched ever since. The slip-ft joint that comes with the ARH headers had a tendency to leak so it was spot welded in place and each time the exhaust was removed we had to cut the tacks. My curb incident at Hallett last June broke the tacks and it was a little leaky ever since.



We knew we had at least one catalyst that was smashed and possibly both had a broken matrix inside and needed to be replaced. But I wanted to get some weight out of this car if possible (we can always add ballast to the trunk) so we went with a system layout we had used before, on Mark Smith's Boss 302-S race car (shown below).



That system above proved to be about 42 pounds lighter than the stock stuff it had before and it picked up so much power he had to have a restrictor added. When we sound tested the new system it was louder but not unreasonably so. The result was lighter and more powerful? Sign me up!

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The old X-pipe was removed and the cats were inspected. Yep, both of them were clogged up. Driving over some curb somewhere probably smashed the internal matrix and ruined them both. So they were cut off and the Magnaflow stainless 3" mufflers were acquired (we're a Magnaflow dealer now, in case you guys need anything). We also added 3" V-band clamps and flanges to the header collectors, which made me happy as they are the least leaky type of exhaust junction.



On this system we moved the mufflers further back and set them under the recesses made for the exhaust under the saddle style fuel tank. Yes, there is a fiberglass heat shield between the mufflers and the fuel tank, and we added some DEI gold foil reflective insulation there as well. The turn-downs are also pushed further back and now dump just under the axle housing, with the heat of the exhaust not near the axle. We've run the car at two race weekends since and had zero rear axle heat issues.



The guys made some custom rear exhaust hangers and the system was buttoned up in less than a day. Ground clearance is still excellent and the sound is... well.... it sounds like a race car now. I certainly wouldn't recommend this for a street car or daily driver, but we don't need ear plugs driving it on track, so it is appropriate. The Magnaflow mufflers should last for years to come, too. Listen to the in-car videos from the race coverage below to hear the sound.



There was some weight savings, of course, but also some extra room around the rear axle. We run the ride height at back of the car very low and it was getting tight between the axle tubes and the over the axle 3" pipes under full bump travel. Parts of the old system will be reused at some date on another S197, as that 304SS custom over the axle section still looks great.



As I drove the car down to the corner gas station to fuel up (and a police car pulled somebody over right behind me, yikes), the "System Fault" message above showed up on the touch screen of the car. WTF? This happened right after we fired up the car, so the rear O2 data was likely wigging out with no catalysts upstream to affect the exhaust stream emissions. We kind of figured that would happen (and we will have the car in for a retune at True Street soon enough), so I hoped this wasn't an issue that would pop back up (it didn't all weekend). A full tank of 93 Octane Shell fuel went in the tank and we loaded the car in the trailer.

NASA at MSR-H Jan 18-19, 2014

We didn't do many improvements to the TT3 Mustang for this season opening round of NASA Texas, but if you've been reading this forum thread for a while you know why. We only just decided to stay in TT3, after the red Mustang didn't sell in November and the 2015 Mustang was delayed likely until August. I had planned on making some upgrades, but as you read at the top of my post, January got a little insane around the shop and left very little time to work on our own cars. So we're just sticking with the existing TT3 set-up and the classing formula has changed for us. The exhaust change was done more to eliminate the CEL issues we kept running into, which we hoped would mean less trouble on track. I doubt it added any power, but we will re-dyno the car soon to make sure. We've been down 10-11 whp for the last year and a half, from the highest tested 430 whp dyno number the car made back in 2012. Plus we tend to run 30-40 pounds over minimum weight, so we're safe if we accidentally unlocked 3-4 hp.

Back in November I had blew my last set of Hoosier contingency tires on a new set of 275 A6s for the ST2 car, which meant I had no fresh tires to use for TT3 on the Mustang in January. Hmm, that wasn't too smart, but I didn't make a good guess on what we'd be doing 3 months later. Instead of forking out $1400 for a fresh set of sticker 315s we decided to just run some used scrubs and hope for the best. Fresh tires can be worth 1-2 seconds per lap, so I knew going into this race weekend we were venerable. But the TT sign-ups were a little light, and some TT3 competitors had last minute problems, so we thought we might get lucky and sneak in the win on used tires (2 race weekends old).

The other mistake we made this race weekend was NOT bringing any of our Vorshlag crew members with us. If we would have had Ryan there wrenching and Brandon shooting pictures this would have been a smoother race weekend, for sure. We get so buried with the "other stuff" during a NASA weekend that I overlooked some issues with the car. But Amy and I went down there solo, and the results were as predicted - a bit of a mess.



The track configuration at MSR-Houston is run once a year on the NASA Texas race calendar and every year they change the direction, as this track can be run Clockwise and Counter Clockwise. Amy and I looked and we hadn't run this 2.38 mile course CCW in... ever? Hmm, that's strange, we've run here a half dozen times, but it has always been CW. So we'd be learning as we drove, and sharing sessions since we're running the same car together again this year. At least we only pay one entry fee this year, from our new "Team Vorshlag" team entry. We will keep doing this until we can afford a two car trailer and two race cars, which might not ever happen.



Our crew finished up the new ligthtweight exhaust Thursday night and loaded the trailer so Amy and I could leave Dallas by about 2 pm for the 5 hour haul to south Houston on Friday. We had planned on meeting up with some friends who had scoped out a good paddock spot and got there just at the sun was setting, unloading the car in the dark and getting our 2014 Annual NASA tech performed. Our paddock was shared with two other enclosed trailers and racers, Paul Costas' GT1 Camaro and Matt White's Coyote powered SN95 Mustang ST1 race car. We were all parked right where it is marked "Grid", as our TT track map had one mistake as the actual grid was held much further down the main straight. Our trailer grouping was right there at the pit wall and when standing up on Paul's trailer's observation deck we had the best views of the track in the paddock!



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[re-rx7]

I enjoy reading your post.

[DirtyD]

I find it funny that Aaron hates Mustangs so much, but yet his Ford Falcon is the Mustang in sheep's clothing.

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by DirtyD I find it funny that Aaron hates Mustangs so much, but yet his Ford Falcon is the Mustang in sheep's clothing.

I love those early, rounded Falcons, and looked into building one for performance rally. But everything I saw pointed me towards Mustangs. The '65 Mustang was 4" wider, which helps a lot, and the '67+ cars were much stronger and had more engine bay room.

But, if you are in love with the shape, or are entering an event restricted to pre-Mustang cars, a Falcon will work.

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by modernbeat I love those early, rounded Falcons, and looked into building one for performance rally. But everything I saw pointed me towards Mustangs. The '65 Mustang was 4" wider, which helps a lot, and the '67+ cars were much stronger and had more engine bay room. But, if you are in love with the shape, or are entering an event restricted to pre-Mustang cars, a Falcon will work.

Don't get me wrong, that looks like an absolutely beautiful car, and I know Aaron built it right. Aaron is really the only reason I like and watch the show, because of how he mods. Simple and factory appearing, but with an extra bit of "in your face" performance.

[DirtyD]

Terry/Jason,

Did y'all have plans to add a flare to the side skirts in front of the rear tires? THat way the lines match up and flow more air around the front of the tire.

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by DirtyD Terry/Jason, Did y'all have plans to add a flare to the side skirts in front of the rear tires? THat way the lines match up and flow more air around the front of the tire.

Yes, we intend to build a modified rocker that kicks out below the rear flare. Just never enough time.

[DirtyD]

Originally Posted by modernbeat Yes, we intend to build a modified rocker that kicks out below the rear flare. Just never enough time.

Cool. I was just curious. That will definitely finish the look and be mean as hell too.