dfw

**Darkhelmet22** · 01-12-2014, 08:54 PM

The logic about timing numbers seems a bit odd to me. The knock sensors are on with the bama tune so if they see knock they will cut timing until it stops. This is standard on all cars. As there Is no set "safe" timing number. You could have a target of 25 degrees timing but if you get bad fuel this number becomes "unsafe" If the fuel is good enough like e85 you can increase timing allot because the fuel has a very high octane. So if we see 29 degrees of timing and the knock sensors are not pulling timing how is this not ok? The fuel seems to handle that much timing or the knock sensors would pick it up. If the knock sensors do see knock they pull timing. So if they pull timing and the timing is still at 29 degrees that means they pulled timing until it stopped. So how is this senario not ok? Running quality 93 with knock sensors just seems a bit far fetched that a current tune ruined your engine. This is all assuming your AF ratio is correct. Where the cyl 8 problems with melting the piston or cracking it? I've heard both. Also from my understating some tuners including bama were turning off knock sensors in their early tunes. Which would explain cyl 8 failures from pre detention.

**DirtyD** · 01-12-2014, 10:28 PM

Darkhelmet, Yagermister recently datalogged another member's car of which was tuned by Bama. He was commanding 29° of timing on his car, and the knock sensors were pulling 4-5° on top of that timing. That's NOOOOOOOO bueno.

**Darkhelmet22** · 01-12-2014, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by DirtyD

Darkhelmet, Yagermister recently datalogged another member's car of which was tuned by Bama. He was commanding 29° of timing on his car, and the knock sensors were pulling 4-5° on top of that timing. That's NOOOOOOOO bueno.

My point was an email tune will not ever be that precise without sending data logs. Yes the tune on the situation above needs to be tweaked but that's why we have knock sensors. As long as they are doing their job his engine should be fine.

**03MachMe** · 01-13-2014, 04:41 AM

Originally Posted by Darkhelmet22

My point was an email tune will not ever be that precise without sending data logs. Yes the tune on the situation above needs to be tweaked but that's why we have knock sensors. As long as they are doing their job his engine should be fine.

I would rather not have to depend on the sensors to make sure my motor stays alive plus i don't want a tune in which my motor "should be fine".

**Darkhelmet22** · 01-13-2014, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by 03MachMe

I would rather not have to depend on the sensors to make sure my motor stays alive plus i don't want a tune in which my motor "should be fine".

I say "should" only because nothing is ever certain with cars. And your engine does depend on sensors to stay alive. It's ok the use all the other sensors but not the knock sensors?

re-rx7 · 01-13-2014, 10:40 AM

All these guys on here I've had failures and I've hear bad things about every tuner. I mean EVERY tuner.

**jayman33** · 01-13-2014, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by re-rx7

Omg Jesus. I've been running it for close to 15k miles now. No issues. I pointed out afr because not long ago, there was a post about the afr being to lean. I've tuned plenty of my own cars including my rx7 which had split timing. Now that's a bitch. If you can squeeze out 5more hp and better drivability then is that worth 500? I consider the drive ability on mine to be pretty good.

Please tell me where you're spending 500 for a tune? VMP's tune is 100 dollars and are a bit more efficient than AM's without running 30 degrees of timing. If you've tuned your own car in the past and on split timing why aren't you doing it to your Mustang? Tuning one car is pretty similar to tuning another, with all your experience I don't have to tell you how bad BAMA tunes are and you should be able identify more than "my afr was spot on".

What software and hardware were you using for tuning your Mazda?

re-rx7 · 01-13-2014, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by jayman33

Please tell me where you're spending 500 for a tune? VMP's tune is 100 dollars and are a bit more efficient than AM's without running 30 degrees of timing. If you've tuned your own car in the past and on split timing why aren't you doing it to your Mustang? Tuning one car is pretty similar to tuning another, with all your experience I don't have to tell you how bad BAMA tunes are and you should be able identify more than "my afr was spot on".

What software and hardware were you using for tuning your Mazda?

Haltec e6k. Kinda old but it was a steep curve for me. I only paid 700 for it 6 years ago. lol Tuning a rotary and then a piston is pretty difficult switch. I had more time back then to learn the ins and outs of the RX7 and the rotary. Doing it with the stang is possible but like I said is it really worth just a few extra ponies? I dont see Bama tunes as being bad. Thats the thing. I see others and see bad publicity on there tunes as well. I believe that they are all about the same and really comes down to servce. Now if I were to put a blower on my car I would most def learn the Coyote. Im just to lazy and busy to do so right now.

**DirtyD** · 01-13-2014, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by re-rx7

Haltec e6k. Kinda old but it was a steep curve for me. I only paid 700 for it 6 years ago. lol Tuning a rotary and then a piston is pretty difficult switch. I had more time back then to learn the ins and outs of the RX7 and the rotary. Doing it with the stang is possible but like I said is it really worth just a few extra ponies? I dont see Bama tunes as being bad. Thats the thing. I see others and see bad publicity on there tunes as well. I believe that they are all about the same and really comes down to servce. Now if I were to put a blower on my car I would most def learn the Coyote. Im just to lazy and busy to do so right now.

Because MOST of the people running Bama tunes have no idea whatsoever about how motors and tuning works. They just drive their cars.

re-rx7 · 01-13-2014, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by DirtyD

Because MOST of the people running Bama tunes have no idea whatsoever about how motors and tuning works. They just drive their cars.

This is true but judging by their rep, you dont see many failures. Ive seen failuers associated with every tune out there. BEing that BAma sells more 3-1 compared to their closet rival, it would stand to reason that it would seem they have had more failures when they havent. Hell the stock tune fails lol.

**Slowstang1_jgw** · 01-13-2014, 03:50 PM

I have a BAMA and Lund ghost cam mail tune, all race tunes and all feel the same with my mail order tunes. I run a real time AFR gauge in my car and have checked advance timing during acceleration. All close to the same, the ghost tune runs lean AFR gauge bouncing around 15.2- 16.0 idle.

Only failures I have seen on #8 is with stock tunes and Ford has warrantied them.

**Darkhelmet22** · 01-13-2014, 09:31 PM

did a quick data logging. 60 degrees outside temp, spark was 24 degrees with knock sensor at 4 degrees. This morning at 45 degrees outside temp timing was 30 degrees with 0 degrees on the knock sensor. af lambda was .83 or 12.2 af ratio. The computer should increase timing until it sees knock. And look how much different the numbers are with a big change in outside air temp. Yes 30 may be "to high" but with knock sensor at 0 there should be no cause for worry.

**jayman33** · 01-14-2014, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Darkhelmet22

did a quick data logging. 60 degrees outside temp, spark was 24 degrees with knock sensor at 4 degrees. This morning at 45 degrees outside temp timing was 30 degrees with 0 degrees on the knock sensor. af lambda was .83 or 12.2 af ratio. The computer should increase timing until it sees knock. And look how much different the numbers are with a big change in outside air temp. Yes 30 may be "to high" but with knock sensor at 0 there should be no cause for worry.

Good example but this is just one vehicle, we also talk about failures but with AM there have been failures with just basic N/A mods. When we look at Lund, VMP and the like the failures have been caused when pushing the stock block to the limit.

When a company doesn't have the ability to tune a car when going F/I or anything above 100 shot of nitrous I think this is saying something. The don't have the data record to write these tunes. I very well think none of their tunes are custom... rather they're just pulling from the record books.

**Darkhelmet22** · 01-14-2014, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by jayman33

Good example but this is just one vehicle, we also talk about failures but with AM there have been failures with just basic N/A mods. When we look at Lund, VMP and the like the failures have been caused when pushing the stock block to the limit.

When a company doesn't have the ability to tune a car when going F/I or anything above 100 shot of nitrous I think this is saying something. The don't have the data record to write these tunes. I very well think none of their tunes are custom... rather they're just pulling from the record books.

Where the failures on AM tunes recent or was this when the 5.0 came out? I agree there is something to be said about them not tuning FI cars. I wonder if they just said well we do some many NA tunes it's not worth the risk with FI.

re-rx7 · 01-14-2014, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Darkhelmet22

Where the failures on AM tunes recent or was this when the 5.0 came out? I agree there is something to be said about them not tuning FI cars. I wonder if they just said well we do some many NA tunes it's not worth the risk with FI.

When you start getting into FI and Spray I believe that you should have a tune for that particular car. It was when the 5.0 came out.