Dallas Fort Worth 5.0 Mustang Club
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Dallas Fort Worth 5.0 Mustang Club (http://www.dfw50s.com/index.php)
-   Performance (http://www.dfw50s.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30)
-   -   E85 and the new 5.0 (http://www.dfw50s.com/showthread.php?t=2132)

Rebelracer568 07-01-2013 10:47 AM
Can you run racing fuel in these cars to help eliminate the detonation?

BLK2012GT 07-01-2013 02:49 PM
I'm switching back to pump gas and adding torco to mine. My mpg sucked cause of e85. Even though I don't drive it that much, going to lewisville from frisco and back I use 1/4 of a tank. That's BS. Plus the drivability on the car sucked with e85. So I don't know if changing to 13:1 compression had anything to do with the drivability issue but I will not be running e85 again.

Bearded Banger 07-01-2013 03:59 PM
Being able to get 105 octane at the pump for the cost compared to a race gas cost is a huge factor.
You get nearly all the benefits for a hell of a lot cheaper. On top of that its more available.
No goes E85 for the mpgs. That's a well known fact. I wanted to protection level it offers. I wouldn't throw your drivo issues at e85 and walk away. You may have issues on a 93/torco blend too. How are you going to consistently get the octane rating your engine needs blending torco and 93? Serious question. Curious as to what your plan is. 10 gallons one can situation? I don't trust that.

re-rx7 07-01-2013 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Banger (Post 37779)
Being able to get 105 octane at the pump for the cost compared to a race gas cost is a huge factor.
You get nearly all the benefits for a hell of a lot cheaper. On top of that its more available.
No goes E85 for the mpgs. That's a well known fact. I wanted to protection level it offers. I wouldn't throw your drivo issues at e85 and walk away. You may have issues on a 93/torco blend too. How are you going to consistently get the octane rating your engine needs blending torco and 93? Serious question. Curious as to what your plan is. 10 gallons one can situation? I don't trust that.
The same goes for E85 you really never know if that is really E85. Its hit and miss. When I had my rx7 I premixed. Oil and that is and had a pretty gd ratio worked out.:throw:

Bearded Banger 07-01-2013 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by re-rx7 (Post 37781)
The same goes for E85 you really never know if that is really E85. Its hit and miss. When I had my rx7 I premixed. Oil and that is and had a pretty gd ratio worked out.:throw:
I have a test kit. I know exactly what I get.

DirtyD 07-01-2013 04:34 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the thing about pump gas is that is can vary in octane more than E85 can, and can also have a crap load of trash in it depending on station. E85 tolerances are a lot more strict it seems.

Grandpa 07-01-2013 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird (Post 37773)
I'm not an E85 guy.

For the money, it's hard to beat E85 as a high-octane fuel. And that doesn't even factor in the inherent cooler operating temps and cylinder temps from running it as compared to race fuel. Those 9- and 8-second cars are drivable on the street. Once you get into the 7- and 6-second realm, there is no longer a pretense that the car will be driven on the street. So on a car like that, the compression goes up, the boost goes up, the timing gets aggressive, and you run a dedicated race fuel.

I'm sorry to hear you're disappointed in the mileage, but I think your 13:1 engine is going to have a helluva time trying to run on pump gas even with the computer doing all its cam timing, fuel trim, and spark advance tricks to keep detonation in check.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Banger (Post 37779)
Being able to get 105 octane at the pump for the cost compared to a race gas cost is a huge factor.
You get nearly all the benefits for a hell of a lot cheaper. On top of that its more available.
No goes E85 for the mpgs. That's a well known fact. I wanted to protection level it offers. I wouldn't throw your drivo issues at e85 and walk away. You may have issues on a 93/torco blend too. How are you going to consistently get the octane rating your engine needs blending torco and 93? Serious question. Curious as to what your plan is. 10 gallons one can situation? I don't trust that.
Very solid points, fellas.

BLK2012GT 07-01-2013 04:55 PM
I tried it so I can hate on it. It didn't work out for me. Hopefully this will. So you can't say I didn't try e85.

Bearded Banger 07-01-2013 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37791)
I tried it so I can hate on it. It didn't work out for me. Hopefully this will. So you can't say I didn't try e85.
I also did the torco thing and hated it. I really don't care what anybody runs in their cars. E85 has worked out well for me and I will staying with it. If all the pieces are in place, setup properly, and tuned properly its the best bang for buck IMO.

Grandpa 07-01-2013 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded Banger (Post 37795)
I also did the torco thing and hated it. I really don't care what anybody runs in their cars. E85 has worked out well for me and I will staying with it. If all the pieces are in place, setup properly, and tuned properly its the best bang for buck IMO.
My next step will be longtubes and a E85 tune. Then calling out Nick to lose some more races to him. lol.

DirtyD 07-01-2013 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve (Post 37797)
My next step will be longtubes and a E85 tune. Then calling out Nick to lose some more races to him. lol.
:popcorn:

04sleeper 07-01-2013 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37754)
I'm switching back to pump gas and adding torco to mine. My mpg sucked cause of e85. Even though I don't drive it that much, going to lewisville from frisco and back I use 1/4 of a tank. That's BS. Plus the drivability on the car sucked with e85. So I don't know if changing to 13:1 compression had anything to do with the drivability issue but I will not be running e85 again.
Good! Just leaves more for us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37761)
And if e85 is soooooooo great how come none of the true race cars run it? Jus wondering.
Because most sanctioning bodies don't allow it. They consider it cheating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37771)
I did pro e85 and they run 8's and 9's. still no 6's or 7's I didn't do a complete search but people been doing that shit for years on race gas. So nothing special. I still don't see how e85 is so much better then everything else. Sounds like you e85 guys are turning into the "new" LS1 guys.
They have been doing that shit for years on E85 as well.

Here's one of my good friends street car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8WTHrojnms

Try this on Torco!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpO8w2X15zU

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyD (Post 37775)
The 275x guys probably don't use it because their motors are built to work most efficient and most powerful off pure race gas and boost than anything else.

That would honestly be a question for Clint as to why they don't run it. Plus E85 only gives around 105 octane, and those guys are wanting like 120.
No. It's because most races won't allow it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by re-rx7 (Post 37781)
The same goes for E85 you really never know if that is really E85. Its hit and miss. When I had my rx7 I premixed. Oil and that is and had a pretty gd ratio worked out.:throw:
Doesn't matter even if it were E70. It will still make more power and be more consistent.

BTW: I wouldn't run Torco in my lawnmower!

Unless you want your heads to look like this from all the MMT.
http://www.mickandsarah.com/PGallery...s/img_2781.jpg


Or your plugs to look like this. :wtf:

http://www.classictruckshop.com/club...rk/mmtfoul.jpg

Bearded Banger 07-01-2013 05:33 PM
Lol, and Kevin wins again.

BLK2012GT 07-01-2013 05:36 PM
So every car looks like that or that happen to one car and they happen to run torco. If that happens to everyone then wouldn't they be out of business and no performance shop would sell it?

DirtyD 07-01-2013 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04sleeper (Post 37817)
No. It's because most races won't allow it.
Or that too. LOL

Grandpa 07-01-2013 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37821)
So every car looks like that or that happen to one car and they happen to run torco. If that happens to everyone then wouldn't they be out of business and no performance shop would sell it?
Not really, because it's an after thought for most people. If you run Torco, your motor will look like that in time. It's a by-product of Torco.

Bearded Banger 07-01-2013 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37821)
So every car looks like that or that happen to one car and they happen to run torco. If that happens to everyone then wouldn't they be out of business and no performance shop would sell it?
Exactly what my plugs looked like when I mixed. Maybe not quite that bad, but pretty much. I had too at the time. No other choice.

04sleeper 07-01-2013 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37821)
So every car looks like that or that happen to one car and they happen to run torco. If that happens to everyone then wouldn't they be out of business and no performance shop would sell it?
Every car will look like that with prolonged use of Torco. This is nothing new. It will turn your plugs, valves, heads and exhaust brown.

Over time, the MMT will build up in the cylinders and could lead to "Hot Spots" if and when Torco is not used.

It won't hurt my feelings if you don't want to run E85. I just want to help you understand there are drawbacks with anything.

BLK2012GT 07-01-2013 05:47 PM
Right and I appreciate everyone's input. I'm new to the e85 and running torco stuff to. I just want what's best for my engine and won't give me any problems. I tried the e85 and it was a problem. I'm going this route now and if I don't like it for whatever reason then I guess I have no choice then to switch back.

Grandpa 07-01-2013 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37830)
Right and I appreciate everyone's input. I'm new to the e85 and running torco stuff to. I just want what's best for my engine and won't give me any problems. I tried the e85 and it was a problem. I'm going this route now and if I don't like it for whatever reason then I guess I have no choice then to switch back.
On Torco, I suggest changing your plugs and oil often(more so than usual). Especially after nights at the track where you are spraying it a lot. Torco was all the rage back when the Terminators first came out. I had a couple of Terminator friends who will go unnamed (haha!) that used Torco so much that one blew a couple of motors and another one who had a plug seize up in the head due to it being so corroded from not changing them often enough on Torco.

STROKD 07-01-2013 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37776)
I'm not just running pump gas. I'm adding torco to it.
I have a couple 5 gallon pails of Torco Id sell if interested. Wont be using it in either of the Stangs.

BLK2012GT 07-01-2013 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STROKD (Post 37837)
I have a couple 5 gallon pails of Torco Id sell if interested. Wont be using it in either of the Stangs.
How much? And why aren't you using it?

46Tbird 07-01-2013 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04sleeper (Post 37828)
It won't hurt my feelings if you don't want to run E85. I just want to help you understand there are drawbacks with anything.
Exactly.

You gotta change the oil a lot on E85 too, due to significant water absorption. I wouldn't go much further than 2k miles myself, but I'm sure the E85 pros will chime in on their thoughts as well.

This is a crankcase catch can after 100 miles of running E85 on a boosted Evo:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/...31c7d1c9_z.jpg

46Tbird 07-01-2013 06:36 PM
Every fuel option has upsides and downsides. E85 is an awesome alternative for cars that need a high octane rating and some street use. It has some maintenance issues and it's hard on fuel systems, although the '11+ Mustangs don't seem to have an issue with it.

I never like mixing fuels, not because it's going to mess up some secret 'formula' for maximum performance, but because it's just a pain in the fucking ass. Driving to the gas station, putting some 93 in the car, then going back home and putting the right amount of 110 in it... think I'll pass.

Grandpa 07-01-2013 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird (Post 37842)
Every fuel option has upsides and downsides. E85 is an awesome alternative for cars that need a high octane rating and some street use. It has some maintenance issues and it's hard on fuel systems, although the '11+ Mustangs don't seem to have an issue with it.

I never like mixing fuels, not because it's going to mess up some secret 'formula' for maximum performance, but because it's just a pain in the fucking ass. Driving to the gas station, putting some 93 in the car, then going back home and putting the right amount of 110 in it... think I'll pass.
I agree completely. If my car was a daily, I'd leave it on 93 for sure. And really, if someone is looking for a hassle free set up then a full out build car probably isn't for them anyways or at the most going up to the point where its as far as you go on 93 octane.

However, if you're looking at building a monster, there is always going to be some extra work and hoops to jump through. You gotta pay to play!

STROKD 07-01-2013 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37838)
How much? And why aren't you using it?
dont need it, cars make good pwr on pump (600 for the slow one and bout double that for the less slow one)... dont need it anymore.

Doug1227 07-02-2013 11:07 AM
I'll just roll with 93 and throw some race gas in at the track when I'm beating on it.....

46Tbird 07-02-2013 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37933)
Do any of those 900 rwhp has 13:1 compression. I bet all of them are boosted. Like I said boosted and low compression cars has great success and worth the e85. NA and high compression is a different story.
So I am curious...

Jeff, besides fuel mileage (which surely you know about before running it) what makes you think E85 "didn't work" for you? Your car seems like a perfect candidate for it. Are you disappointed with your numbers? Are the numbers better with race fuel? Since I'm not "in the loop" with the current status of everyone's car I have no idea why you're so anti-E85.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37958)
I filled my mustang with e85 and ran like shit. Convince me it's the best stuff ever.
So the tune was a problem? Seems like maybe you should consider having it tuned by someone else, just to see if there is a difference. The fuel was certainly not a problem - there are E85 and flex fuel vehicles in use all over the country that don't have drivability problems.

BLK2012GT 07-02-2013 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird (Post 37959)
So I am curious...

Jeff, besides fuel mileage (which surely you know about before running it) what makes you think E85 "didn't work" for you? Your car seems like a perfect candidate for it. Are you disappointed with your numbers? Are the numbers better with race fuel? Since I'm not "in the loop" with the current status of everyone's car I have no idea why you're so anti-E85.
I knew about the mileage but it dropped a lot more then expected. And the idle sucked on it. It die on me a lot which before with cams and pump gas it never did. If I get below a 1/4 of a tank it felt like my engine was starving and it would die on me EVERY TIME I came to a stop. So it might be just my build I don't know but people I have talk to and TS has talk to, no one has had any luck with e85 and bump compression or my kind of build.

46Tbird 07-02-2013 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 37962)
I knew about the mileage but it dropped a lot more then expected. And the idle sucked on it. It die on me a lot which before with cams and pump gas it never did. If I get below a 1/4 of a tank it felt like my engine was starving and it would die on me EVERY TIME I came to a stop. So it might be just my build I don't know but people I have talk to and TS has talk to, no one has had any luck with e85 and bump compression or my kind of build.
Bad idle and dying when coming to a stop is not an E85 issue. Is someone working on getting the pump gas / race gas tune done? I'm interested in knowing the numbers and how much the drivability improves.

BLK2012GT 07-02-2013 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird (Post 37966)
Bad idle and dying when coming to a stop is not an E85 issue. Is someone working on getting the pump gas / race gas tune done? I'm interested in knowing the numbers and how much the drivability improves.
Yes and should have numbers by this end of this week.

StormTrooper 07-02-2013 03:53 PM
Ever had rice pudding, that shit is nasty?

GTRacerX 07-02-2013 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRacerX (Post 37480)
What all is involved in changing over to E85 on the coyote motors. I know a tune would be required, but what about the fuel lines and injectors etc.?
Thanks for answering my question everyone ;)

blownaltered 07-02-2013 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRacerX (Post 38083)
Thanks for answering my question everyone ;)
from what I gather injectors and a tune. The lines are fine. But I don't have a coyote so if you really want to know pm 04sleeper

DirtyD 07-02-2013 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRacerX (Post 38083)
Thanks for answering my question everyone ;)
Minimum 47# injectors and a tune. Talk with 04sleeper. But as its said before, for a daily driver it isn't the smartest move if you are worried about economy.

DirtyD 07-02-2013 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 38089)
Yes I had two tuners tune my car and it still continue to run crappy. I called different shops they done somewhat similar builds and TS did the same and none of them had luck on e85. So no I didn't just throw in the towel cause I wanted my car to be on e85 from the get go but it didn't work out.
I was asking that as a serious question, because I wasn't aware what other options your had looked into. So I will believe you on that.

BLK2012GT 07-02-2013 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyD (Post 38090)
I was asking that as a serious question, because I wasn't aware what other options your had looked into. So I will believe you on that.
I had one of the best tuners in the world (at least thats what everyone says) in Mike Wilson to look at it and it still didn't run right.

blownaltered 07-02-2013 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK2012GT (Post 38091)
I had one of the best tuners in the world (at least thats what everyone says) in Mike Wilson to look at it and it still didn't run right.
I will say that I've known Mike for years and he fixes what most others in town can't get right, so if Mike couldn't get it, it was most likely not in the tune. Now that doesn't mean it couldn't have been mechanical in nature

BLK2012GT 07-02-2013 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blownaltered (Post 38094)
I will say that I've known Mike for years and he fixes what most others in town can't get right, so if Mike couldn't get it, it was most likely not in the tune. Now that doesn't mean it couldn't have been mechanical in nature
Thank you. That is all I've been saying.

Midnight11 07-02-2013 05:43 PM
e85 info only. this will stay clean


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