One of my fav guns I shot was a Taurus 45 subcompact. It was my old carry. Was pretty accurate and not bad to shoot at all. Just too big for everyday carry and it didn't like reloads. My buddies gun same make and model had no problem with reloads.

El tortuga. Look at the instructions you can't shoot lead thru the glock. Or +p rounds.. weird right? My sig p226 is a solid chunk of machined metal... that's a good design. Look at how bad the Glocks failed the FBI Frisbee test. Don't get me wrong I like Glocks when the other guy is carrying one!! And I own a glock, how else would I carry my lunch to work everyday? From the fridge to the microwave!! There is a reason our military, including any special forces branch does not use glocks.. look what's used. Honestly all the reasons glocks are junk on the side, you'll shoot best what fits your hand best. So shoot every hand gun in your price range and some above it. Ask for a holster. Try to carry it, most places will have no problem helping you

Can shoot unplated lead, but it will foul so you actually have to clean the gun once in a while.

23C = .40 S&W which is plenty hot enough for me. Who shoots .40 +P?

Frisbee test, never heard of it but was curious so I looked it up. 1991 DEA (not FBI) ABUSE test = 6 throws of 15ft to height of 4ft. Longer slide rails since 1992 to address. So maybe you shouldn't buy a pre 92 if you are planning on throwing it around a lot.

Yeah, they make in 10 mm too. Weird. ;) I am a little disappointed, you didn't even bring up the typical Kabloom theory of the ANTI Glock crowd.


If you are counting on the other guy's Glock to malfunction, I'm going to recommend a large supply of quickclot and good life insurance. ;) Proud member of the tupperware army!!!

Sigs a great piece too, but much more expensive solid metal = heavy. At least we agree on fitment. :)

Our military uses Beretta 92's because we won't buy new weapons. That's a fact, since I used one in Afghanistan and stateside. Spec Ops primary uses full sized solid metal due to reliablity of metal. Polymer pistols of any brand aren't used.

Find a gun nut buddy who has a bunch or rent some from a range/store, find what you like and buy it. The best gun to have is the one you are willing to carry and shoot.

Wow so much glock hate lol. Fordplay has obviously never used or owned a glock just going along with the other sig nut swinger crowd. More law enforcement carries glock than any other gun put there. PERIOD. they do it because they are one of the most reliable guns on the market. Add in the lighter weight (every oz counts when you have a ton of gear on your belt for 10+ hours), high round capacity, and price it is a no brainer. The only thing I will agree with him on is the grip angle, but that is personal preference not something wrong with the gun. I don't like sig at all but I'm not stupid enough to make false statements about them to try and sway the op from buying one lol

If you have to adjust your grip after every two shots you are not in a position to give gun advice to anyone, period.

I do gunsmithing, which means I am constantly breaking down and rebuilding firearms to refinish, repair, upgrade, modify, tune up, etc. Glocks are the easiest handguns to completely detail strip and reassemble, nothing else out there even comes close. With machines simplicity equals reliability, out of all the police trade in Glocks I've handled (easily the most abused guns) not a single one has failed a function check.

03machme.. regarding the grip angle, I acknowledge that it is different but once you adapt your grip a certain way the glock feels natural and all other handguns become more controllable as well.

For the record I don't consider myself a tier 1 tacticool operative, but I've shot a lot of guns andshoot quite a bit more than most people. I'm more than willing to go with any of you to the range.

I will point out that our military does use a factory threaded H&K Usp occasionally for some spooky operations.. the Beretta M9 is a fantastic weapon with an extremely long service life.. but it is also massive and heavy. Not something you'd want to conceal. The ineffectiveness of fmj 9mm (what the military uses) is an entirely separate argument.

Literally quoted this just so I could Facebook +1 Double like the post.

Of course we agree on fitment, that's why they make so many different sizes and kinds, and I don't count on a glock to malfunction, they are like the AK of the pistol world, it will always fire, and sometimes it will even hit what you point it at, just like an AK. As for having to readjust my grip, I'll bet by the third shot rapid fired from a .50 Cal desert eagle the casing has already popped you in the head. I shoot a lot, I owned a lot, one was a glock, I tried using it for competition and it's just slower to bring up on target than any other gun I've used, you shouldn't have to get used to a gun, like all the glock users suggest, it should fit you from the moment you pick it up, that's what spawned the original 1911 design ergonomics, I didn't start winning my league and competitive shooting till I gave up the glock, first improvement was the Kimber than the ed brown, then the p229 then finally the p226, which is weird because the ed brown and Kimber have way more done to then than my stock sig, but that's why I keep saying to hold and shoot everything, and don't buy because what others have that fit them.

Fordplay.. every post you make in this thread seems to contradict the last. Also what does your claim of needing to readjust your grip after every two shots from a glock have to do with rapid firing a desert eagle? Calling a glock the ak of the pistol world is the sort of asinine crap I expect to hear in a gun store, but whatever. Have some videos for us of you shooting some competitions? I'd be interested to see them.

They do? I'm really bad with punctuation, I need to work on that, when I talked about having to readjust my grip I was referring to rapid firing the .50. But I don't think the basic theme of any of my posts has changed, had a glock, purchased it on the hype, didn't like it, due the the grip angle and the approach they use for reliability, which happens to be the same approach the Russians used when they created the AK from stolen german rifles in world war 2, same principles, light, cheap, loose. As for video of me? No I don't have any. I have pictures of me shooting the desert eagle, the m4, a Thompson, the SAW, a bunch of carbines. But I still have some gift cards and stuff for shoot smart so we can go anytime you guys want to get together, I don't shoot enough any more, but I need advance warning do to the wife and kids, shoot smart used to do tactical Tuesdays, bring your ar-15 and pistol and advance thru the range hitting targets and reloading on the move, I'll see if they still do that and if we can get a group together if you guys want??

Ok, makes a lot more sense with that comment directed to the deagle. Read it as reffering to the glock. Everyone has to pick what works for them, I agree with you there.. but there is a reason 1911's have a reputation for being moody, have super small clearances (no wobble) on a gun will do that. $20 says your sigs have as much slide wobble as my glock.. they were developed for reliability also (I've owned more than a few sigs as well)

I normally shoot at tdsa (texas defensive shooting academy, tdsa.org) and yes I need to get out and shoot more too.

Interesting side note about why the US military sticks with the M9....

My dad (director of military contracting for Winchester) says that none of the branches besides the Air Force care about pistols at all. There is a meeting every year when everybody gets together and talks about standard issue rifles, pistols, shotguns, and other small arms (sub .50BMG) and they decide what to look into as far as new stuff goes. Nobody ever cares much about the pistol. I believe that there is an RFI out right now (maybe Army and Air Force???) for a "modular handgun system" or some such, with a potential bid request to follow....but I'd be surprised if anything happens.

Anybody remember the XM8???

Yeah, I need to remember to proof read all my stuff, and I screw up my punctuation, it's because 90% of all my posts are from my phone, yeah I have not shot competition in texas, I moved down here with my family about 7 years ago and gave up the dreams of soldier of fortune/hired gun lifestyle and work 55 to 80 hours a week. But yeah the 1911, first thing you have to do is fire 200 rounds thru it then work the ramp, then find what type of defense round will feed in your 1911, because each one is different!! Ha ha.

Yeah I remember the xm8, geez, yeah the early calvary carried a pistol only to use in the event they were separated from their rifle so they could keep people ducking till they got back to their rifle, I think most people still feel that way in the military, unlike the way it happens in counterstrike, COD, and battlefield, rarely do you switch to pistol then to knife to kill the guy bunny hopping around in front of you!! Ha ha. But for us out here where I can't pack an M4, mp5, or something, pistols are our first line of defense.